by I-CH-TH-U-S 73 Replies latest jw friends
Oops! Your getting way off our little topic F'nFree. Not to mention your own topic on quoting scriptures from different parts of the Bible. I still say, whats wrong with that. Jesus did it.
Please show me where Jesus used multiple scriptures in a single discourse, then I'll show you where he based an entire discourse on one scripture. W
D'Fing isn't love. It's emotional blackmail as it always is combined with conditions (like: do this and you can come back, do that and we won't talk to you).
Love never sets people apart. Instead it brings them together by giving them a common basis. Whatever sets people (families, friends, partners) apart can't be love.
Love is about accepting other peoples values and decisions and loving them for what they are not for what we want them to be like.
If I tell someone he/she has to behave and decide in a certain way to come up to my expectations then I am not loving. Not at all!
Its true, if there is any "love" in d'fing...it is hard, tough love.
Incidently at the meeting the brother giving the discourse pointed out that the numbers for baptized youths under 18 was down.
Could it be that parents are holding back pushing their children towards early baptism?
I think this is a very wise move on the part of witness parents to allow their children to decide for themselves what religion they want to be part of.
No one should be part of this religion who does not understand the implications of d'fing and excommunication.
I understood it. I accepted it. I left the Catholic church, joined the witnesses and then left the witnesses.
It is easier to see how the d'fing works to the advantage of the sinner when the sin is breaking God's moral laws.
It is hard to understand when the d'fing was for visiting another church or a difference in opinion about a scripture or giving your child a life saving procedure.
I can understand the very hard feelings from that experience.
It is easier to see how the d'fing works to the advantage of the sinner when the sin is breaking God's moral laws.
Anewme, this is something I never understood:
If god's law has been broken then why do humans interfere? Why don't they leave it up to him to love or to punish. Does their belief in god include the belief that he is unable to get it done without the help of humans or a human organisation? Shouldn't humans just live and let live and leave the rest up to their god?
I also never understood the point how d'fing could help someone. The only result of d'fing as far as I can see it is suffering as it cuts people off even their closest relationships. Does pain help anybody? And if feeling pain makes a person change his mind then what is d'fing other than emotional blackmail (that is: I will hurt you to press you into changing your mind)?
D'fing is the last resort to get a person to think about their sin and the ultimate consequences of living without Gods approval.
I said before, this process works quite well in the event the sin was a moral sin: drunkeness, drug abuse,thievery, lying, cheating, adultery, fornication.
The sinner sees clearly that his sinning stands between him and his association with Jehovah and his clean people.
Its clear: quit the sinning= be welcomed back into the fold
It is pressure to return to a healthier lifestyle.
It is similar to the method known as "tough love" that many families use to help their members recover from substance abuse.
While dfd the returnee may talk to any elder for spiritual help, attend all the meetings,
sing kingdom songs, get copies of the mags and read them for encouragement, write letters to the P.O
Family members living with the dfd one may converse like normal.
Now in the case that the dfd one has been kicked out for changing his views and holding those other than the Watchtower's Society's (and that is the case with many here)
I find the chastisement a very difficult one to take and overcome.
If in your heart you no longer go along with the Society's views, to be disfellowshipped and cast out like a drunkard or glutton or adulterer is impossible for me to comment on.
In what way does that appeal to the heart?
I could understand the Society "silencing" one who espouses a different view, but kicking out altogether?
Look, dfing is BAD if you see it that way.
If your family wont talk with you because you are tired of participating in the religion
that has got to hurt. There is no way around it. That hurts.
I cannot defend it.
Maybe the shunning should have a time limit on it. I dont know. But that would be making more man made rules.
"Jehovah's clean people"?
Sorry - but that is a loaded description. The organization is rotten from the core.
There may be many, many people involved with JW's who are only trying to do the right thing with their life. They many truly be drawn to God and want to learn more about him, etc. etc. It sounds like you are one of these, anewme.
But I personally will never understand why people stay with the JW's or try to return to them after learning all of their false prophecies and incorrect doctrines, not to mention their flip-flopping on critical issues, the list goes on and on...
I was born and raised in the JW faith and I had to leave everything behind to try and stake out a normal, healthy life for myself. D'fing and love? Give me a freakin' break. It's a tool used to keep control - it may sound good on the surface - but in reality it's a shameful practice.
Being treated as well as you report, anewme, is something I never saw or experienced in all my years with the JW's. Furthermore, even after being reinstated, people were always marked. Whispers, gossip... Disgusting!
I am really not trying to attack anyone with this post - it just stirs up bad feelings and makes me very frustrated. So please don't take offense.
Anewme, I definitely can't agree with you on this. I have seen too much. I also suppose, this forum probably wouldn't exist - and wouldn't have such high maintenance - if the said method wasn't used by Jehovahs Witnesses.
But you sound happier now than before. If this is what came out of it for you than that's all one can ask for.
Can I get an Amen!!
Go tell it on the mountain Jamelle. I agree with everything you said.How do you sugar coat the ettemt to disdroy a young persons life and then say its Gods will to do so? Misery loves company I always say.If a lie is believed by thousands of people then it has to be the truth right.Wrong!
Dragon Heart
The sinner sees clearly that his sinning stands between him and his association with Jehovah and his clean people.
The assumption that all people in the society are 'clean' is an interesting statement to make.
To assume that the 'friends' who sit beside you in the hall and smile at you, who embrace you with their cloak of conditional love, respect and acceptance, are all 'clean' is a huge leap of faith.
I remember that in John 6 Jesus says NONE have everlasting life unless they eat the emblems.
I brought this up in a discussion. "Oh but Jesus said that before he inaugurated the New Covenant". Then I pointed to the scripture about a sinner being treated as "one of the nations". Surely then shunning was only for those before the new covenant?
"OH that's different" It's always different for the witlesses when it don't suit them.
HB
