by I-CH-TH-U-S 73 Replies latest jw friends
Finally free -
st paul uses collages of scripture constntly in his letters to the Hebrews, Romans, and less so in his other writings.
It is an acceptable precedent. Philosophical and intellectual discourse would become impossibly cumbersome if we cannot selectively quote (and cite) form our sources.
HB
Am I being treated better than most?
Or do I have a repentant heart?
At my JC the elders never embarrassed me or asked me detail questions.
My sins were pretty clear and it was clear I was not willing to quit sinning.
After a while I realized my life of sin was not what I wanted out of life
( see prodigal son story)
I prayed to Jehovah for help to get out of the mess I made and to forgive me.
I called the KH and things got rolling.
At the hall, no one throws tomatoes or scratches my car or spits at me or holds a Bible up at me to protect themselves from Satan.
No one shields their children from me. (In fact the children all wave and say hi to me and the parents do not correct them) I feel that is very kind.
People sit in my row and sometimes next to me.
I sing. (I'm one of the better singers there)
The elders all smile at me and welcome me.
They all know I am the dfd lady.
To tell you a story: The first book study I went to in Sept. a black sister upon over hearing me say I was dfd to somebody practically cried out "Halleluia! All the dfd people are returning to Jehovahs loving organization and to his loving arms! Amen! Praise the Lord!)No one said anything after that.
But I instantly liked her! And have made a note to get to know her when I am reinstated!
I know you are thinking "Oh brother, Anewme makes me sick"
I am just telling you MY EXPERIENCE as it is happening.
I've slogged through and read all YOUR EXPERIENCES.
I cant speak for what you have gone through.
I may hit a snag still. I dont know.
I have yet to meet with the elders.
They might ask me questions that will make me angry or something.
I dont know.
Anewme, I just know that the experience you describe with the elders, and the whole process that you've gone through with the actions and reactions of those at the kingdom hall is, in my experience and from almost all that I have talked to, most definitely the exception to the rule.
I think it's great that that is the way it's happening for you, I really do. But my personal experience was about as opposite as its possible for it to have been. My elders did ask me horribly embarassing questions, and took almost three months to respond to my many attempts to meet with them, letters unacknowledged, empty promises to talk to the others on the JC to set up a meeting.
On the topic of tough love as used by families with members with substance abuse problems, I've got experience with that. And it's night and day from the DF'ing policy. When a family member is using and you have to make the decision to cut off contact, for the sake of the safety of the other family members, you don't just show them the door and tell them to write you a letter in about nine months to a year asking if they can be a member of the family again. You still check up on that person, and do everything within reason to make sure they are ok. It didn't mean that I wouldn't say hello to my family member in public, or have lunch in public, or help move, or any of those things. It was a private safeguard that was absolutely necessary. And all in the family were completely aware of WHY it was necessary.
Shunning is used to incite shame, tough love is not.
CD
The sinner sees clearly that his sinning stands between him and his association with Jehovah and his clean people.
ok ok ok, lets go through this, sin seperates us from YHWH, but not his everlasting love and not his welcoming arms when they want to come back. as for the "clean" statement, no one can claim that they as a group are clean. look at any biblical group and tell me that they were 100% right on. i cant think of one off hand and i dont think im going to look cause im pretty sure im not going to find one.
but here is a thought, lets take a scenario. if Judas hadnt hanged himself and lived 3 more days, would Jesus have accepted him back? (would he wait till right before he ascended or would he do it right away or not at all?)
Disfellowshipping is a mind/emotions control tactic. No love involved in it whatsoever.
DY
I just cannot fathom Jesus disfellowshipping hundreds of thousands of people for the myriad of reasons the society says so. And remember, those reasons do change ... though God does not.
Shunning is abominable as practiced by the Witnesses. Another proof positive for me that God is not with these people (collectively) though I'm sure he smiles on individuals who are actually trying to live up to his will. That HIS will - not to be confused with THIER will.
sweet tee
Its clear: quit the sinning= be welcomed back into the fold
I am one of the sinners who committed a moral sin. But them allowing me to stay one of Jehovah's Witnesses, or even come back didn't involve quitting the sinning. I wish it had. My ultimatum wasn't stop sinning or be df'd. It was get rid of the man you love or be df'd. They even told me if it had been a witness I was sinning with, I probably wouldn't have been getting df'd. We would be counseled. And allowed to stay together. Isn't that a bit of a double standard- their way of trying to control who I was with? I know we aren't supposed to marry a worldly person, but if someone does start dating a worldly person, and keeps their relationship clean, they aren't forced to get rid of that person.
And df me wasn't a last resort for them. They never tried a first resort. I moved out of my parents house, and had stopped attending meetings 2-3 months before then. The elders started calling me because they had heard things 7-8 months after I stopped attending meetings- I wasn't even trying to associate with witnesses! No one ever came to see how I was, offer encouragement or anything while I was living on my own away from meetings. They got some information from someone, and bam- they started calling and showing up, not to talk or try to help me, but to see if it was true and kick me out. Loving- if that's love, I'm scared to see what hate is.
The sinner sees clearly that his sinning stands between him and his association with Jehovah and his clean people.
After much experience with DF'd people, JC's and those NOT df'ed, I can say that my position is this:
DISFELLOWSHIPPING is a political tool to remove those not willing to lie, or those who get caught and don't know how to work the system.
I know those who, by this standard of df'ing to protect, should have been kicked out and never brought back. Others, some on this board, SHOULD NEVER have been df'd but due to who they were or who they were related to, got the boot.
Anewme, if you want to belong to a group that practices shunning that the early Christians NEVER did, go for it. But don't defend it here as Christian, or loving. You are just deluded that it is OK; you have bought lock stock and barrel the WT's line about it.
Ask you elders the next time they visit with you about your sin: Why was Brother Chitty, a known homosexual, not df'd when he was discovered? And Brother Greenlees, who was also a homosexual? One of them was kicked off the GOVERNING BODY for molesting a 10 year old boy. Why was he not disfellowshipped? Is it because he was well known, and could damage the org?
WAKE UP. You have been abused; stop loving it.
I found this link to be a nice biblical analysis of shunning: http://www.jwreform.org/shunning.html
Anewme, I credit the org where credit is due...when it provides good biblical teaching centered on Jehovah, just like this week's WT study (aside from a blurb or two)...Yet what gets me is how the publications always seem to get back to the central goal of demonstrating how the publications' authors are special. It's not always overt, but it's the permeating theme. Once you see this, you realize how all the biblical teachings somehow lend themselves to be centered around this theme. At that point you start wondering a little more about the objectivity of the biblical standpoint...
