What is Zen (page 6)

atypical

I personally really appreciate James Thomas' approach. He doesn't seem self-centered to me, he seems the opposite. It's just that he's figured out that he has to remove his own sense of ego/identity in order to move on and figure out everything else. I may be over-simplifying, but that's how it seems to me.

SPAZnik

:innately and naturally true and real

beautiful.

Enigma One

JT...I like your 2nd post much better. Simple, clear. I think much of what we are saying is similar...we can blame semantics. There are a couple of differences. I want to spend a little time reading through your posts on your beliefs so I can reply in an equally clear and concise manner. I'm going to crawl into bed and try and sleep my cold off. I'll post tomorrow.

Atypical - In no way was I saying JW was / is self-centered. His APPROACH to enlightenment or the "way", seems a BIT self-centered. It's not a personality trait I was discussing at all. But rather how he approaches some things. Do you approach something from the east? The west? The center? See? There are no right or wrong answers here. Just personal experiences and observations.

atypical

Enigma, I agree with you, and was just commenting on your take of James. I enjoy both of your insights into a way of thinking that is new and interesting to me.

SPAZnik

fear and ego seem to be two very frequented themes

many words are used for sounds that seem more similar than different. it seems to distract and divide. it seems like a distraction from the truth

the entire process seems to be a journey for truth. intensely personal yet...intentsely intimate/bonding

i know i say too much and not enough all at the same time. it's frustrating. there are pictures in my head that i want to share that i want to articulate or express ... it is in the not sharing that i feel selfish ... shyness is pride/fear/ego. grrr.

the paradoxes (paradoxi? haha) of life are what truly blow my mind. it's all such a balancing act (and i realize i am the acrobat i always wanted to be as a child)

zen
spirituality
simplicity
balance
centre
core

feel free
to ignore this
verbal diarhea
i do not offend
easily
i do not expect
anything

except maybe
that you will see
what you want to see
and what you don't want to see

it is just a part of a process
how can you know my humility
when it sounds proud
can you possibly know how humble i feel
at moments like this

there are times i know i'm making an ass of myself
i don't stop it
i trust it
and i trust you
and it's funny anyway
and we need to laugh
and i know too that if i suck it up
the learning we need is right there
obvious
precious
gift

i fear you will point and accuse
self-absorbed
and i will confess
yes
and i will falter
thank you for stating the obvious
and i will bow
i needed that
truth
thank you.
thank you

----------------------
and all i have to give you is this
i want to give.
it's selfish i know
giving because i want
not because you asked (altho you did post here, opening yourself)
or you need (altho i don't know that you don't)
or it's appropriate
but i'm still learning all that ~
----------------------
it was summer
camping
middle of nowhere
earth. nature. leaves. trees.
someone was here before. someone human.
mildly disappointing where they don't tread lightly.
mildly interesting.
understandable why. this most perfect spot. this most perfect view.
a vista a landscape defying guttural description. rendering silence...effecting peace. hours or days at a time. ten minutes of that air as rejuvenating as a year of rest.
watch - learn - accept the gifts - be open
look around. be still. observe. learn from nature. what do i see but:
bear shit.
lol.
this beautiful latrine.
hahahahahahahahaah.
hilarious.
bears are smarter than some humans it seems.
they live better. i've never seen a more beautiful "shitter".
i feel priviliged sitting here in this bear's beautiful latrine.
some ppl have the misfortune of being "civilized" and not appreciating/understanding the whole nature thang.
the bears have it right.
bear shit alright.
fertilizer for all this beauty.
and...um,
sure sign of a bear.
but where else to stay?
like a fly.
ug.
nowhere better.
this is clearly where s/he comes to shit.
then leaves.
who shits and then sticks around it?
works for me.
I'll be safe here
living the life
in this beautiful bear latrine
making fires
doing my infinitismally small part
in the circle of life
feeling more alive
and whole
and human
than ever.
and the irony
of living so well
and so simply
and so in harmony with everything around.
I'm not afraid of the bear.
I'm not afraid of the bear.
hahaha.
Okay so maybe just a little self-doubting.
But I will respect it.
As I revere it's bathroom
I visit today and will sleep in for tonight.
*crack* *crack* *crack* go the trees and branches across the way
wehre I was collecting firewood before.
oh my gawd.
Moment of truth.
Bear.
Here to prove or disprove my theories.
Here to challenge my sense and sense(s).
*th-thump*
*th-thump*
oh my gawd.
My heart thumps in my throat and ga-gushes in my ears
as my breathe stops then quickens and my hearing becomes
acutely sensitive to direction.
We (the bear and I) hear each other and
both run like hell the opposite way.
I scared it as much as it startled me.
It would seem that getting caught with yer "pantz down" by unexpected firelighting "wildlife" when yer in yer latrine, isn't any more appealing to a Bear than to a human.
:)
I felt one with that bear. We were one in our reactions. In our lack of malicious intent "doing our thing" appreciating a beautiful latrine spot....stumbling across each other and in our fear...our simple instinct for self-preservation...our desire for / appreciation for LIFE.

---------------------------------------

i feel apologetic for too many words
but it is my present, truth

G'nite :)

SPAZZY

JamesThomas

Atypical, thank you for your comments. As Enigma has explained it was not a personal judgment so much as an "approach" critique, and that's how I saw it. I am delighted to see someone like yourself, atypical, who is just separating from the Witnesses, yet who is so open minded and inquisitive. Good for you! Your open and questioning nature is key to many doors. I wish you luck friend.

Enigma One, yes, i understand. Post when you can.

Spazzy, your poetry is grand. You reached deeper into the heart of this than anything ever typed by these fingers. Thank you so much.

j

JamesThomas

Enigma One:

In your advice you seem to go within oneself to expand outwards to the universe. The universe grows from you outwards. Wherein I believe it should be the other way around. The universe is ever expansive and compacts itself as it draws near to you.

I would like to add, that my sense is that here is our problem. Both of our expressions are wrong. When we attempt to put things in words the mind interprets in a dualistic way, e.g.: up/down, within/without, here/there, etc.. There is no in, and there is no out. There is no movement/space/time at all.

It all unfolds within a unspeakable unmoving purity. A silent vast awarness. The many things, and spinning dance of movement, all are that, and unfold in that, which never moves.

It's like I had a dream last night that I had traveled far through much adventure to get to a beautiful and foreign place; and upon awakening found the covers neat around me for I had not moved even an inch.

It's about simply realizing that the foundational reality and actuality is not the movement, but rather the vast pristine pool of consciousness which it all dances within. See, there I go again, with the "within" stuff. Mom was right: I'm no good.

j

poppers

"It's about simply realizing that the foundational reality and actuality is not the movement, but rather the vast pristine pool of consciousness which it all dances within. See, there I go again, with the "within" stuff."

This is why you would make a good zen master, JT - zen is full of paradox. Your efforts to explain paradox are as clear as any I've come across. Now all you need is a good stout stick for rapping people in the head. Perhaps you'd like to start with your mother.

SPAZnik

"the privy of zen" heehee :D

What is Zen

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