I need help with a discussion with my parents! (page 2)

jwfacts

Thanks for the comments. The idea of discussing questions like "if it turns out you are wrong, will God destroy you for it?' and other questions of reason rather than doctrine should be far more effective. But being realist, little is likely to change in their minds, so I hold out no false hope.

AlmostAtheist

On the birthday thread, DefD posted an article about birthdays from a non-JW source. Interestingly, on that same site there is an article (a stupidly long article) slamming makeup and describing it as a sin.

Would your parents be willing to discuss the makeup issue with you? You could go over the relevant parts of the article, dissecting the logical flaws and misapplied scriptures. Since it is an article by a non-JW/non-ex-JW source, it would be neither holy nor apostate. So they could read it with a clean conscience, and dissect it as well.

After you destroy that article together, you could then pull out the article on birthdays on that same site. Would they be willing to apply the same standard of logic and reason to an article they agree with? If they are already prepped with the makeup article, they might.

Birthday article: http://www.thercg.org/articles/abcc.html
Makeup article: http://www.thercg.org/books/tthbm.html

My own article refuting birthdays: http://thebentinel.com/jw-birthdays.html
(Note that it has been pointed out that Job's daughter [the one that sounds like 'Karen'] has a name that means 'horn of makeup', so it is a subtle positive mention of makeup. Still, no servant of God in the Bible is recorded to have worn eye paint.)

Dave

YoursChelbie

The Governing Body is “going beyond the things that are written” to pressure young one’s to take such a step before they are adults.

*What detailed, written financial provision exists for the housing, feeding, healthcare etc. of retired Gilead Missionaries? These are people who have given up a secular job to be Missionaries for many years in a foreign land. When they become too sick or too old and can no longer carry on in that capacity, what do they come home to? Are they left to fend for themselves? To the extent that the Governing Body does not feed the least of these they do not figuratively feed Christ’s “household” and cannot rightfully claim to be The Faithful and Discreet slave.

*If God did have a single channel, it would not create laws that go beyond what is written by prohibing certain kinds of birth control or beards on men, etc. The Governing Body in Brooklyn is clearly no different, but a lot more harmful, from other religions which comprise the “great apostasy” of groups that sprung up since the end of the First Century congregation.

They do NOT have the light that gets brighter-- it get’s dimmer.

*For example: What is the significance of 1914 again?

YC

peacefulpete

Third person the discussion by asking how they feel about your new church where 12 apostles have a hotline with God and are guided through angels to interpret the Bible. When they ask what they teach tell them it really doesn't matter because it is all true as they are God's instrument to the world. They all love each other and will die for each other if needed. Oh and the aliens are coming anyday to vaporize the unbelievers. It sounds so ridiculous when someone else claims these things. Ask them how they would feel about that new church and why.

ozziepost

When they become too sick or too old and can no longer carry on in that capacity, what do they come home to? Are they left to fend for themselves? To the extent that the Governing Body does not feed the least of these they do not figuratively feed Christ’s “household” and cannot rightfully claim to be The Faithful and Discreet slave.

That's a good point, chelbie, and one which I think the WTS themselves acknowledge by keeping old Bethelites nursed in their rooms until they die.

The problem these oldies have is that there's nowhere else to go on retirement.

I contrast that with retired ministers of other churches who are in superannuation plans provided by the church.

ozziepost

Oops! I forgot to add:

jwfacts:

It may be that you can touch on this with your aging parents. What provisions have the Australia Branch made for them after they leave the circuit work?

jgnat

JW's are notorious for arguing from the objective. It's all playing with language with them. JW's rarely make it personal.

So I'd advise to keep it at a very personal level on how it affects you, and your relationship with your parents. Talk about what you have seen and heard. That is first-person witness information, it's what makes your story powerful.

For that matter, that's what made the first Century Christians so powerful in their message. They simply talked about what they had seen and heard.

JT

"so I will only talk to them if they truly want to know the truth."

333333333333333333333

this is really the answer to your question above, if they want to know the truth, then you have a wonderful opportunity, but if they want to convert you back, then you are wasting your time, only arguments and bad blood will result

you have a few personal choices that only you can make- currently you still have parents who have not shut down completely on you as many here have exp, you can at least talk to your parents,

if you feel that it is worth you losing that to try and choke the truth abot the truth down their throat then GO FOR IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

but if you want to keep some type of open door with the hope that in a few months or years they will take a second look at what you have shared, then don't burn your brigdes-

i used to host former jw gathering in my home once amonth and you iwll not beleive how many only wish they had Did it differently and now they can';t go back and redo discussion the wt with family anymore at this point in their life

the best thing you can do is live a life that contridicts everything the wt said about those who leave

that their life will be miserble, they will be sinners, pimping and HOing, smothing dope, getting drunk yes you become the poster child of the wt for what happens to those who leave US

instead you have indicted that they see the Calmness, the inner peace and happiness that you show

as my mom used to say, as jw we kept telling ourselves we were the happiest people on earth yet deep down inside jw know they are not happy at all

any service meeting looks like a furneral- smile

so my advice is you have provided them with enough food for thought , give them the space and time to digest it

as i tellfolks all the time it is a process , the same as a person doens't become a jw from one conversation but over a period of time months andsometimes yeears a person typically WILL NOT LEAVE wt over night either

just my 2

TopHat

They do NOT have the light that gets brighter-- it get’s dimmer.

*For example: What is the significance of 1914 again?

"The light gets dimmer" It sure does....

ozziepost

the best thing you can do is live a life that contridicts everything the wt said about those who leave that their life will be miserble, they will be sinners, pimping and HOing, smothing dope, getting drunk yes you become the poster child of the wt for what happens to those who leave US instead you have indicted that they see the Calmness, the inner peace and happiness that you show

I need help with a discussion with my parents!

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