Though how much of a role Tookie actually played in the intitial start of the crips is up to debate, the fact is that he had some role in helping the creation of a very dangerous gang, which has been suggested is responsible for thousands of deaths. This is a strong case for the death penalty. Like I said earlier however, this should have happened over 20 years ago.
Tookie is running out of time
by jt stumbler 102 Replies latest social current
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myelaine
dear country girl,
"Better 100 criminals set free, than one innocent man die by the hand of the State."
are you serious? set free,where, into the community?
michelle
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LDH
I should also add it chaps my ass when I hear the bleeding hearts railing away about how he never had a chance, poor little black boy, grew up poor, what else could he do but knife, mug, and shoot people?
Poor little Negro!
What about people like my husband, who was born in Harlem Hospital and raised in the South Bronx, and <<drum roll>> has NEVER been involved in criminal activities? <gasp> Even better, never been involved in a gang. Mom and Dad made it clear that where they were living was just temporary, and they could apply themselves with education and ethics, and make it out of the 'hood.' 5 of my husbands siblings (out of 8) graduated from IVY LEAGUE schools, with academic merit! NONE of them have ever had run ins with the law.
Now you tell me, when these bleeding hearts are doin the 'Poor little black "Tookie" williams act, when are any of them going to nominate MY HUSBAND for a Nobel Peace Prize? He has served as Chairman of the Boys and Girls Club for three years (voluntary, no money) and currently is a Rotarian, along with other stuff he does for non-profits on a voluntary basis. I guess he shoulda shot someone at 14, gone to Juvie, and THEN turned his life around. He would be applauded then, I bet.
Makes me sick.
Lisa
A grwon man should NOT be called Tookie, Class
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FlyingHighNow
Have enough coffee today, LDH? I understand what you mean about overly sympathetic people. One thing that rose to mind when reading about your husband: sounds like he had very loving, responsible parents, mamma and daddy at home. It really can make a difference, for a child of any race, when one or both parents is never home and is abusive when they are home.
Personally, I've only just heard of Tookie. I don't have much idea about his background as a child. I don't know much about his case, other than what I've read on line since I saw these threads. I am not totally convinced the death penalty is always wrong. Anytime something like this comes up, I try to look at all sides and be fair.
I don't think all people opposed to Tookie's execution are bleeding hearts. Many of those people would oppose the execution of a more privileged white person as well.
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LDH
It really can make a difference, for a child of any race, when one or both parents is never home and is abusive when they are home.
I totally agree, but this doesn't mean that children who aren't raised in the 'American Ideal' of a family have no other choice than crime. You couldn't convince me that people do not know SIMPLE right from wrong simply because they grew up poor and black OR poor and white or any other combination of poor and <insert skin color>.
That's what my post references.
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forsharry
Okay...I've seen a lot of back and forth on this topic (yes, no maybe so) and some snarky remarks and such.
My question is this...you're either for or against. Fair enough.
What does everyone propose should have happend to Tookie then? Believe me, I know all about the inequalities about the justice system in this country. I find it a disgrace...but what do you think should have happend to Tookie then? What punishment would have been appropriate, cause believe me, I think the standards of his life behind bars have been consistently a lot higher than what I've had to live with being a law abiding citizen at times.
What kind of punishments would you think would be appropriate? No TV? No Cable? Featherbeds, what?
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FlyingHighNow
I think the standards of his life behind bars have been consistently a lot higher than what I've had to live with being a law abiding citizen at times.
Have you really looked at what life is like in most US prisons?
My first husband went to prison after we broke up. He served five years in Florida. I understand he went on to serve other sentences later. In Florida they used to serve rotten cold cuts and rancid food with maggots in it. The funds to feed the prisoners were spent lining prison officials' pockets.
I read every book I could get my hands on by former inmates in various prisons around the US. The conditions in most US prisons are deplorable. In some cases you wouldn't put a dog into such conditions. People feed their pets better than most prisoners eat. Prisons are generally filthy, rundown places where those running them are as corrupt and in some cases more corrupt than the inmates. Shawshank Redemption wasn't far off there.
The infirmary at the Bartow County jail in north Georgia is an 8'x8' room with no beds. The lights are left on 24/7. If one complains of chest pain, etc. they are placed in that room for days, with several other inmates.They all sit or lie on the floor. They are not checked on or treated medically. People die from neglect in that "infirmary". It's really a place to send inmates to teach them NOT to complain with health issues. My son told me that one man had cancer and was not allowed his meds.He also said that inmates had to perform CPR on a guy and scream and beg for hours for anyone to get him an ambulance. A lot of prisons are as bad as that.
A federal prison such as the one on Maxwell Air Force Base in Montgomery, AL where they send white collar criminals such as Watergate participants, now that is a country club compared to almost any medium or maximum security state prison.
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forsharry
Thanks for answering the question.
What would you change? What do you think is punishment?
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katiekitten
The experiece of American Prisons sounds pretty bad.
I worked in a Category B UK prison (Cat A being the highest security prison in UK) for 3 years, and I can honestly say it was nothing like that. I had keys that gave me full access to the whole of the prison (I was not a prison officer).
I regularly went to the kitchens - the food was part fresh, part tinned. It was NEVER off. It was not brilliant, but it was slightly better than UK school meals, there were choices, and there was plenty. There were 2 pieces of fresh fruit a week.
There was a laundry which I regularly visited. Clothes were changed once a week, and each change contained two pairs of jeans, two or three shirts and several pants and socks. There was a choice - jeans and shirt, or jogging bottoms and t-shirts.
The cells were small, but the lights were switched off every night. There was daily access to showers. There was daily access to a TV or a pool table for one hour a day.
The wings and communal areas were swept and mopped every day by trusted inmates who were paid for their job as 'wing orderly' - £6 a week, £7 a week in the laundry, £9 a week in the kitchens.
There was a good relationship between officers and inmates. Twice I saw a crying inmate being comforted by an officer.
Im not saying all prisons in the UK are this good, but in the majority of cases the quality of life inside is WAY better than the lives the inmates had outside (how many inmates had hand cooked meat pasties for dinner, freshly cooked that morning?) The real travesty is that human beings choose to lead such chaotic wicked lives outside. There is no excuse for being so wicked - poor parents and opportunities is no excuse.
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LDH
read every book I could get my hands on by former inmates in various prisons around the US.
Now there's a trustworthy source!!!!The conditions in most US prisons are deplorable.
Good.
I am not heartless by any means, but the vast majority of prisoners are REPEAT offenders. If after spending some time in prison, you decide to go back that is your prerogative. You can't feign ignorance as a repeat offender. If I spent 1 day in jail, something tells me they would not see my ass again!
Lisa
Quick Learner Class