by avishai 91 Replies latest jw friends
My brother suffocated to death (lack of oxygen in the blood) from acute myloid leukima. He was 21 years old. December 5, 2003
He refused both a blood transfusion and a bone marrow transplant. He believed whole heartedly that he would be resurrected.
I wrote about it here:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/16/62097/1.ashx
And Here:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/63039/1.ashx
Avi, thanks for starting this thread.
-Doodle-V
Lawyers could play with semantics and interpretations and definitions but t he heart of the matter is that the blood issue (its rejection) is religiously motivated. There's no change and the courts still will not touch that issue even with a 15 feet pole, because they are forbidden to!
I hope i am proven wrong within my lifetime....
Gerard, not by unbelieving spouses, it isn't. They aren't Jehovah's Witnesses and have legal authority over their children's welfare. If only one of them is ever convinced or claims to have been convinced by the medical facts misrepresented the Org is screwed, and it will be a PR nightmare for them, at best, from that point forward.
AuldSoul
According to the American Blood centers stats, 4.5 million are saved each year because of blood in the US, that's 1.5 percent of the poulation.
Now, 1.5% of the worldwide Jw population at 8 million is 120,000!!!!!
So let's assume that only TEN PERCENT of those transfusions are "really necessary".
That's still TWELVE THOUSAND jw's that would die per year without a blood transfusion. That's the equivalent of one jonestown a MONTH, not per year...
Well done. Glad somebody around here knows math.
I mean several of you are good at math, maybe all of you. I meant to say I'm glad other people can do it cause I sure am not good at math and Avi that is some aswesome computing. Thank You! And thank you to all the others who have worked on what the numbers could acually be.
Nah, I suck at math, I had to use an online percentage calculator. Now the JW's can say that those stats are wrong because I used the "evil, demonized internet" to figger them out!!
So, eduardo, if you go with only ONE percent of ONE percent, then ya get about 1200 a year. Get it? Seem Farfetched now, oh mighty legal mind?
Oroborus,
Avishai,
When you say that you really suck at math you are being sincere... Here is your first error:
According to the American Blood centers stats, 4.5 million are saved each year because of blood in the US, that's 1.5 percent of the poulation.
Now, 1.5% of the worldwide Jw population at 8 million is 120,000!!!!!
You have taken a percentage from a US based population and applied it to a worldwide JW population. The incidence rate and recovery rate for International Witnesses would be different than for U.S. witnesses due to a number of factors which need no elaboration. In order to perform your imaginary hypo you would need to apply the 1.5% against U.S. JWs which if you carry it through results in reducing your 1000 witnesses by 75% to only 250 witnesses a month - still an unbelievable figure. (Incidently there are only approx. 6.6 Million Witnesses as officially tallied not 8 and upto 15 Million if you use Worldwide Memorial Attendance. So that is your second error but just a minor one.)
So let's assume that only TEN PERCENT of those transfusions are "really necessary". That's still TWELVE THOUSAND jw's that would die per year without a blood transfusion. That's the equivalent of one jonestown a MONTH, not per year...
Ah the good ol assumption-game. That is where you really have a problem and it is where Danny's cite and figures also fail. Incidently Danny's quote of the New Light stats was using 1996 U.S. membership figures so they need recalibration as there are now more than 2 million U.S. Witnesses.
Anyway getting back to the assumption problem, we can't assume anything. There is no logical reason to go with "ten percent" or "one percent" or "1/1000th of a percent" or !5%, 20% or 99%. On what rational basis do you make such an assumption and at what point are you willing to allow common sense to influence your assessment?
I wish to thank Odrade, Sweet Tee, Apostate Kate, Scully, doodle and anyone else who has shared their tragic stories. Please continue to do so. It is important to share the individual personal stories and I wish there was a website, other than New Light, although you can do it there, which was solely devoted to relating these. It is the personal impact that will get people motivated to change and revolt.
Also please understand my position. I am firmly against the blood doctrine. It is a corrupted teaching of the scriptures's symbology of blood. It is a disaster that it is leading to any one single death and needs to be completely disgarded as soon as possible by the Society. I encourage all active Jehovah's Witnesses and their families to refuse to obey it or go along with it in any form and also to find the courage to fight against it and to speak out if they can.
I am not against people making informed medical choices for themselves, and respect the right of the courts to step in to protect minors whose parents are whack-jobs.
I do believe that the use of hyperbole or in this case erroneous imaginative statistics is harmful to the cause in the fight against blood. I also believe that anything in this fight should be weighed and measured and evaluated as objectively as possible to determine how useful it may be for the cause - hence my concerns in part over the Big News article (which I will be sharing with the board later tonight). I don't think that things which seem beneficial should be adopted willy-nilly without question...most of you got into the Watchtower because of such an attitude.
With regard to the tragic experiences related in this thread, I believe that these prove my very point. Each of these incidences is so emotionally impactful that it is not just the victim who is affected but also JW family and even friends. It is my contention that if there were a "1000 JWs dying a month" in the U.S. between the dead ones and the family/friends who leave over this the attrition would be staggering. Let's play the assumption-game and say that for every death two other Witnesses also fall out and ignore those who don't leave. this would mean that the figure is really 3000 Witnesses leaving the org each month, 1 through death and 2 walkaways. that would be 36 thousand a year, (plus the 30,000 a year we know to be disfellowshipped each year) which makes for 66,000 JWs leaving each year! Minus the 28,000 baptized each year in the U.S. comes to a negative loss of 38,000 each year. So know worries then, by this rate the complete number of JWs in the U.S. will reach zero in 53 years. Oh and these are conservative numbers. See I can have fun with math too.
these types of exercises are fruitless and do nothing but hurt the cause against blood.
-Eduardo Leaton Jr., Esq.
PS: Dave, gee you are so right. I guess I will just have to tell the two hot actresses that want me to do their websites for them that I don't have the skills to do the job.
i do things for a reason. I keep my own sites minimalist and simple because that is how I like them and I really could not care less what you think about it. I also market myself to a specific niche and clientele. As for your supposed expertise, I couldn't care less again, but please do feel free to share your marketing & communications experience and qualifications. I have both the academic background and work experience to back me up.
