Desolation of Jerusalem

by Alwayshere 240 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro
    If Jeremiah were alive today he would preach publicly the wonder of God's organization praising Jehovah and admire how the NWT has made good use of his original prophetic book.

    Typical JW speculation.

    I believe that the focus of ch 25 is Judah as the text clearly indicates that its focus or target is Judah as proven by the opening verses to the chapter.

    What you believe is irrelevant. The focus is explicitly stated to be other than what you say it is.

    Josephus gives only one reference to the destruction of the temple alone as fifty years but in all the other refernce to both temple and Jerusalem he gives a period of seventy years from the Fall until the Return. Now it seems that you are adopting Josephian chronology alongside Neo Babylonian chronology but before you jump into the abyss you must realize that both sets of data differ widely and you should read the Dissertation V on the chronology of Josephus before you get too excited.

    I don't need to 'adopt' anything, and I don't need to get "excited" about it. I don't need to twist and contort my interpretation to make it fit an agenda. Everything just falls into place. It is of course amusing that rather than having any logical counter-argument, you have to resort to such a lame response. That my bible-based data fits exactly with Josephus' information is a serious indictment to your flawed claim that Josephus agrees with you.

    The complete desolation of the land is at the very heart of the seventy years which is what stumbles scholars because this concept is unbelievable. Jeremiah refers to the fulfillment of the seventy years and this indicates that all that Jeremiah's poetic description of the land must come to pass so it was with the Return in 537 the land was now inhabited. This is the reason why 539 is impossible because it does not meet the requirements of Jeremiah's prophecy. It is not the judgement on a king of Babylon that ends the seventy years but a devastated land becoming re-inhabited.

    The "concept is unbelievable" because Jeremiah explicitly stated that the 70 years were of nations serving Babylon after which its king would be judged. Jeremiah makes no mention of the Jews returning in connection with the end of the 70 years. Jeremiah explicitly states that when the 70 years were fulfilled, Babylon's king would be called to account. There is simply no justification for what you are saying.

    October 1914 certainly does accommodate World War 1 which began a few months earlier but a little further research in some earlier Watchtowers would help you on this matter but as you are not really interested you can remain in your obstinacy.

    I have read the flawed attempts to try to salvage the October date (and have referred to them in previous posts, but you probably ignored what I said), and they are quite weak. "Obstinacy" is not a word.

  • ackack
    ackack

    I have read the flawed attempts to try to salvage the October date (and have referred to them in previous posts, but you probably ignored what I said), and they are quite weak. "Obstinacy" is not a word.

    Really? I haven't read any. Last time I checked, officially, the WT did not link WW1 and 1914 together per se. What has the society written about this one? I'm kinda curious.

    ackack

  • scholar
    scholar

    Jeffro

    It seems that you do not like Jeremiah or his prophecy.

    What you believe is also irrelevant. The focus lies elsewhere from your claim.

    You do need to adopt anything because you have nothing but a flawed hypothesis based upon a false and misleading view of history. Your so-called Bible reading ignores Josephus entirely because his view contradicts your hypothesis.

    The concept of exile-servitude-desolation is believable because it agrees with Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezra and Josephus, a period of seventy years from the Fall in 607 BCE until the Return in 537 BCE. Nice and easy !!!

    You have not done the necessary research into matters becuse this matter has been discussed in depth. Praise to celebrated WT scholars

    scholar JW

  • scholar
    scholar

    ackack

    Jeffro claims he has done research into the matter and seeks to discredit it. Let us put him to the test and see what work he has done so that he can assist you.

    scholar JW

  • ellderwho
    ellderwho
    You seem to hung up over the king-list but for the purpose of biblical chronology, celebrated WT scholars have deemed such a list as unnecessary and irrelevant as it does not fit into our methodology.

    This is where the arguement really cannot go on any further. You claim the list is unnecessary because it does not fit the method. Well, whats that tell ya genius?

    Gee lets see if I got it, a kings list that doesnt exist, to explain rulership years that do.

    However, if it is so important to you why dont't you on the basis of information published by the Society construct your own list and then you will be happy. I wish you well in your project.

    Ive tried to do this with my elder stepfather with a masters in criminology- study and he was unable to do so. So How smart do you have to be to connect the dots of the WT kings years and rule?

    He went so far as to order the book by AK Robertson, referenced by the WT in the insight vol. and guess what? It does not agree with the WT, it gives contradicting information.

    As you say in recent publications there is no list for the Babylonian kings presented in tabulated form,

    But you said you posted one already remember?

    the reason for this is because the data is simply unreliable and any dates posted to certain Babylonian kings are determined from our carefully crafted chronology.

    Are you smokin something good here? You just admitted you dont have a chronology.

    Look;

    celebrated WT scholars have deemed such a list as unnecessary
  • ellderwho
    ellderwho

    This you posted in another thread:

    elderwho

    I have already posted a regnal list for the Neo-Babylonian monarchy and this has already been posted here based on WT publications namely the Insight volumes. The article under 'Chronology' has also a list of kings for the Divide Monarchy so we have publiched all the information that you reguire. It appears that you have not followed my five year long defence of our chronology as you claim so perhaps you are walking in the path of self-delusion.

    Then you post:

    You seem to hung up over the king-list but for the purpose of biblical chronology, celebrated WT scholars have deemed such a list as unnecessary and irrelevant as it does not fit into our methodology

    Which is it?

    Oh I know:

    Scholar: "there is no list for the Babylonian kings presented in tabulated form,"
    Hmmmmm.
  • scholar
    scholar

    elderwho

    Frankly, I cannot be bothered with your childish requests for something that you can already create with the data provided in WT publications. Any constructed chronology for the Neo-Babylonian period is fraught with problems because of numerous gaps and conflicting data when one compares it to carefully crafted biblical chronology by celebrated WT scholars.

    I hope these remarks help you with your challenging task.

    scholar JW

  • ellderwho
    ellderwho
    Frankly, I cannot be bothered with your childish requests for something that you can already create with the data provided in WT publications.

    This is my point genius. You cannot create a list and you know it. So my friend you are in "check mate" by your inability to produce said list.

    There's eight pages of your nonsense/smoke and mirror, with no final product. Just like the Tower.

  • toreador
    toreador
    Any constructed chronology for the Neo-Babylonian period is fraught with problems because of numerous gaps and conflicting data when one compares it to carefully crafted biblical chronology by celebrated WT scholars.

    Scholar, are you admitting that the WT scholars are crafty buggers?

    Tor

  • ellderwho
    ellderwho



    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/79647/4.ashx


    The above is Neils/scholars celebrated kings list.

    elderwho There is no great difficulty in reconstructing a schema for the Babylonian dynasty from 625 to 539 BCE. Wt chronology presents the reigns of these rulers in accordance with the secular records beginning with Neb's first year, Nisan 624 ending with Belshazzar in Tishri,539. Similarly, a comprehensive chart for the Divided Monarchy is presented in the Aid and Insight Volumes and one can see the names of the Judean kings who reigned in Judah during that period 625-539 BCE of sum 86 years. These were Jehoiakim, Jehoiachin and Zedekiah. WT chronology has established the reigns for the Neo-Bablonian dynasty beginning with Nebuchadnezzar: Nebuchadnezzer reigned 43 years fro Nisan 624-582 Evil Merodach reigns of 2 and 18 years proposed,- 581 -? Neriglissar reigns of 2, 4, 18 years proposed ? labashi-Marduk reign of 9 months - ? Nabonidus reign of 17 years - 566- 539 There is only some certainty of 60 years with a shortfall of 26 from the biblical data for the Judean reigns of 18 years and exile of 68 years, a total of 86 years. Jehoiakim reigned 11 years from 628 - 618 Jehoiachin reigned 3 months ending in 617 Zedekiah reigned 11 years from 617 -607 The length of the Judean kings is some 22 years up to the fall of Jerusalem in 607. Your turn to supply a chronology of the Divided Monarchy? scholar BA MA Studies in Religion

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