It has been a long time since I was around the borg or read any litertature -
could someone explain for me the use of the word "delete" in the WTS context?
College deletions?
by Collegegurl 50 Replies latest jw friends
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LuckyNun
There is an elder's daughter in Olathe, KS, who is going to KU for a four-year degree in Computer Engineering. I wonder if she'll have to quit, now. maybe that'll finally wake her up to the fact that you can't be both a "good" JW and live a "normal" life.
I keep getting this urge to go to a meeting, introduce myself but not mention that I was ever affiliated. I want to see if I describe my lifestyle (going to college, supporting the local music scene, married but to a worldly guy), if they'd still tell me I'd need to change to fit in. Oh, who am I kidding? Even if they said it was all okay, I wouldn't join. Their basic tenets are full of crap. -
Seeker4
I think the initial statement, that the CO said that elders and their children are not allowed to go to college is a misstatement.
They can't "not allow" that. It's more likely that this CO is stating that if an elder goes to college, or allows his kids to go to college, his serving as an elder will be reviewed and he could possibly be removed.
I would guess that in the light of the recent elder's school, the Oct. 1 WT and this past summer's DC drama, that is a very likely scenario.
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wanderlustguy
The thing is the motives for not wanting you to go to college are not what everyone makes it out to be. College teached you to use logic and reasoning to verify information you are given. It gives you the ability to see the organization as it really is an research any claims they have. It's a dangerous thing for an organization that thrives on keeping people "fenced in".
Hope you are picking up on that.
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Oroborus21
Before everyone jumps on the bandwagon we may need to see some corroboration of all of this. For one thing there are so many Witnesses in college elsewhere and no one else has heard of anything like what Collegegurl is telling us.
(i note too that she is a Newbie and this is only the 1 or 2 post)
I would like to see the scan of the CO's letter. (Receiving such a letter directly from a CO is itself highly unusual and contrary to SOP.)
If this is truly a real situation, it seems to be at this point, gross overstepping of authority locally where you are at. I would get other congregations involved, and alert the Society about the CO's and local body's actions. Obviously there hasn't been any thing such as this published in any of the Society's official literature (since the 1992 Softening) at the most recent articles only discuss dangers, etc, but don't constitute a ban on college. Thus you could hardly be fairly punished for doing something which you had no notice was wrong.
Again, either the CO misunderstood what was presented at the meeting or the info he has got, or you have here individuals that are exceeding their authority on their own initiative.
Until more info is received and more circumstances in line with what CollegeGurl is reporting come forward then I remain highly sceptical of this post and the information contained in it.
-Eduardo
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Pistoff
Obviously there hasn't been any thing such as this published in any of the Society's official literature (since the 1992 Softening) at the most recent articles only discuss dangers, etc, but don't constitute a ban on college. Thus you could hardly be fairly punished for doing something which you had no notice was wrong.
This comment ignores the reality of the development of "wise"(right) and "unwise"(wrong) behavior in the org. Oro, can you find me in writing the society's thinking on what constitutes loose conduct? Yet the elders have both written and unwritten info with clear definitions.
The student is NOT being punished by this case, but the parent. "Allowing" your child to go to 4 year university is most definitely frowned on, and the heat is being turned up by the org through the elders and most likely the CO's.
I would love to see a scan of this letter; if this CO talked about this in a letter, he is probably history.
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Confession
I don't need any corroboration to know that the organization is definitely cracking down on attending college. But the idea that the WTS has made it a matter of policy that any persons going to college (and their parents) will now automatically be disqualified from having "privileges" in the congregation? That's probably a misunderstanding. COs do step outside their bounds all the time.
The last CO I had did this sort of thing. My Bible student (yes, just about two years ago) was a 16 year old young man who had (along with his newly baptized mother) wanted to know if it was wrong to go see movies like Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings. The first time they asked me, I directed them to a couple of Watchtower articles and explained that this was a family decision. The mother kept asking; she badly wanted someone to tell her "yes" or "no."
So the CO comes (a real firecracker) and the question is put to him by the mother and son. On Tuesday, as part of one of his talks he makes brief mention of this topic. Then he mocks the "conscience matter" position.
"All these people love to say, "Oh, it's a conscience matter." Look, we are talking about spiritistic, Satanic movies here. IT'S NOT CONSCIENCE!"
This was a little Hispanic guy with a thick, thick Brooklyn accent. Highly motivated but with little education or speaking skills. His screech "It's not conscience!!!" was spoken with such red-faced anger and frustration. He was basically trying to say that this was not actually a conscience matter, which of course is ridiculous.
So guess what? That Saturday the CO sat in on my study with the boy. At one point in the study he stepped in to follow up on this subject of questionable movies. He ended with...
"You see, John, we are talking about loyalty to Jehovah and Jesus Christ here. So is going to movies like that really a conscience matter? What do you think?"
It is so funny (and sad) to think about this kid's dilemma. Here his teacher (me) had been telling him it was, but the CO was telling him it was not. You could see this puzzle plainly in his expression and body language. He looked back and forth between both of us three or four times, paused, and then said, "No," with an unsure look on his face. The CO looked pleased. But I couldn't let this go.
"Well, strictly speaking, John, this is a conscience matter. I know Brother CO is concerned that anything the Society has called a conscience matter, for some, has been taken to mean it's okay. And that shouldn't be the case. But ultimately we cannot be "masters over your faith." After looking seriously at the information, this is up to you and your parents."
I knew I was taking a real risk contradicting him like that, but he made no objection whatsoever. At the end of the study, he even told John he had "a good Bible teacher." LOL...
The Society (even with all of their preposterous policies) would not have told him to teach this, and he must have known that. But for some of the staunch Guardians among us a little overstatement--when done out of loyalty to the organization--is the right thing to do.
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cheezy
But for some of the staunch Guardians among us a little overstatement--when done out of loyalty to the organization--is the right thing to do.
And they can always hide behind "imperfect men" if they get caught. However, if they are "caught" by the WTS, it will be wink wink nudge nudge - don'tcha know? -
blondie
In many ways it is the body of elders call, right or wrong. I have known of congregations in the same city where elders and MS were not allowed to have mustaches, and other congregations where they were.
I have seen congregations where the body of elders will not let elders' and MS wives or daughters living at home have more than one piercing in each earlobe. The CO tried to get involved and force the elders in the congregations that allowed it to comply. The elders in these congregations did call headquarters and were told that it was the body's decision, not the CO's, nothing official you see.
So if the JWs in those congregations where BOEs (or COs) are trying to force a personal opinion on them, they should be brave enough to either get the CO to mediate, or call Bethel headquarters.
Blondie
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zagor
What a pitiful existence. Grown men and women have to live by boarding school types of rules where headmaster makes all decision and even trivial thing need to be discussed.
WTBS introduced mosaic-law kind of a setting with countless rules for every freaking thing imaginable. I really wonder if that what Christ had in mind when he said “Truth will set you free”