Need some quick advice...

sassafras

My biweekly JDub visit is coming up here in a few hours, and I could use a bit of advice...

The lady knows I am a big time doubter, but she has some sort of personal mission to get my husband back into The Truth (it makes me sick to write that) and get me in as well. She comes by at the exact same time every two weeks to drop of the new WTs, reads some scripture, asks how I'm doing, blah blah blah.

I'm pretty polite to her, but I'm ready to kick it up a notch. Any suggestions for something I could start with? I want to go slow and steady. I don't want to run her off, I want to open her eyes. She is the one who converted my MIL and maybe if she leaves, my MIL will leave, and then my hubby won't feel so guilty for not being active any more. A long shot, I know, but I want to give it a try.

Oh hey, while I'm here, I wanted to ask if there's any JW literature/CD ROM stuff that could be helpful to anyone? DH has led MIL to believe that he's still quasi-JW so she'll send us anything we want. She's got 4 huge bookshelves in the basement full of every thing she's ever received since 1978. Which is weird, I thought they were supposed to get rid of old stuff?? Anyway, if there's a particular thing anyone's looking for, let me know.

AlmostAtheist

Hey Sass,

It's one tough row to hoe, trying to wake up a JW. One of their highest tenets is that they have (and in fact, define) the truth. So anything you show them contrary to that is automagically false.

Given that, though, there are some inconsistencies you can point out. In regard to blood, they say, "If a doctor told you not to drink alcohol, would it be ok to inject it into your veins?" But this is a false comparison. Alcohol is a food, blood is an organ. Injecting alcohol into your veins is nearly equivalent to drinking it. But injecting blood into your veins is essentially a "blood transplant". The Watchtower has admitted that blood is an organ, and quoted a doctor as referring to a transfusion as a "blood transplant". (Sorry, I don't have the references handy)

A more accurate illustration would be: "If a doctor told you not to eat liver, would he object to you getting a liver transplant?" In this light, it's clear that one is very different from the other.

There's loads of info out there on blood, maybe you could bat it around a bit. This one has the advantage of being something that a "newly interested person" would legitimately be concerned about, so you wouldn't immediately be labelled an opposer for bringing it up.

But tread lightly, don't come off like you're trying to disprove anything. Your attitude needs to be, "Help me understand this, I see it, but there's this bit I can't seem to get..."

Dave

hubert

Here's a list of bible changes that might help. My j.w. sister-in-law says the j.w. bible never changes....... (Yeah, right)

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/103991/1.ashx

Hubert

hibiscusfire

Well I guess my advice would be late but tell her Jesus is God and you believe that.

Hibie

Check_Your_Premises

Are you a CHristian? Were you a dub? Everything with the JW is about status, so your status dictates your response.

I like to say to dubs, "you know, I believe in God. I have salvation because I have faith in Christ. The Holy Spirit is at work in me, remaking me in Christs image in ways I never dreamed possible or could do on my own. So why do I have to be a JW? To me that is like telling me I got the president of Walmart there to help me, and telling me I should go talk to some cashiers! Help me out?"

I have had them come back with the verse about if you reject the disciples you reject Jesus.

I replied, "so what if you accept the disciples message but reject them? I mean the gospel isn't about accepting the disciples is it? That sounds like a different gospel then the one originally delivered? What about that guy on the ...um torture stake next to Jesus. Did he have to accept the disciples also? Did the Bible writer leave that out for some reason?"

Another standard is just to say: "isn't it funny how all these groups claim they are the right one! I mean how do you know for sure? Do you go around and check out all the groups that claim this? Of course you beleive it because it all seems so true. BUt what if you went to one of those other groups and they seemed even more true? I just don't even know where to begin!!!"

All said with a smile and VERY casually? Your persona is that you are VERY interested, VERY honest, VERY humble, and VERY confused.

CYP

greendawn

Expanding on what Hibiscus said, tell her you feel that the Watchtower closes the door of the New Covenent on almost all JWs and that you will never be able to accept that.

AlmostAtheist

Hib and Greendawn,

The problem with "laying it on the line" like that is that she will get labelled an opposer or a hopeless case, and she'll lose the dialog opportunities.

If straightforward worked, I'd tell them there's no evidence that the Bible was inspired, point out 10 contradictions at random, and they'd agree and quit the Watchtower. But it just doesn't work that way. People hold to cherished beliefs in the face of all contradictory evidence. Worse, they avoid association with anyone that might seem to lead them away from their faith.

So even if she has a strongly held view, it isn't in accord with the original poster's stated goals to voice it.

Dave

blondie

JWs have a little internal radar system that goes off when someone asks an insightful question or brings up a topic they consider only an apostate or someone reading "apostate" material would bring up.

The best thing to do is look ahead at the material she plans on covering and what scriptures are used. Check them in another translation (or several) and look at the context. If you have time, post it here, and some of us might be able to show where the holes are.

Realize that JWs only read the paragraphs and parrot it back at their own meetings and expect their students to do the same. Going outside the book's material is another sign that you are not a teachable person.

Blondie

sassafras

Well, she came by... I think things went okay.

I took your guys' advice and started off with the blood issue. (A good one for me, because its the one I know the most about and have good evidence to debunk their theories) I tried my damnest to put on the act of a person who wants to know more. I really wanted to suck her in to my story. I kind of blew it, but at the same time, I think I got her to think.

I asked her the question, "If your child was dying from some terrible disease, and there was only one guy in town who had the antidote. He had tons and tons of the stuff, enough to save the entire town but he wouldn't let anyone have it. Would you steal a bottle of it?" She said that she probably would.

So I said, okay, "well, all sins are equal in the eyes of God, right? So wouldn't allowing your child to get a blood transfusion to save his life be kind of the same thing?"

She got a confused look for a minute, and then started rambling on about different alternatives to whole blood, yadda yadda yadda. I think I got her to think though! I hope so.

To answer CYP's question, I'm your standard garden variety Christian. To make MIL happy, I've done a few bible studies. DH was raised JW, but never baptised. He hasn't gone to a meeting in years and is really waffly (is that a word?lol) on his beliefs right now.

jgnat

Good luck with your approach. My attempt only lasted for five or six visits. While you are at it, try and establish that you are a Good Person. Have some treats handy when she comes by. When she's had enough "hits" to her cherished belief system and calls it quits, I suggest you ask her, sincerely, if she thinks YOU will survive Armageddon.

Whether she answers you honestly or not is not a big deal. I want a whole bunch of Witnesses out there secredly wondering how just their belief system is, when there are obviously so many Good People out there.

Need some quick advice...

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