Put aside all of the 607 B.C.E., there is another question that I'm not familiar with and mabyee some of you know what there explanation is, or if they don't even address the issue.
We are all familiar with the account in Daniel chapter five, and Nebuchadnezzars dream about the tree. Daniels explanation of this dream begins:
20 “‘The tree that you beheld, that grew great and became strong and the height of which finally reached the heavens and which was visible to all the earth, 21 and the foliage of which was fair, and the fruit of which was abundant, and on which there was food for all; under which the beasts of the field would dwell, and on the boughs of which the birds of the heavens would reside, 22 it is you, O king, because you have grown great and become strong, and your grandeur has grown great and reached to the heavens, and your rulership to the extremity of the earth.
The Tree as explained by Daniel is a symbol of Nebuchadnezzars rulership. But this is where my questions arises. The new book "What does the Bible REALLY Teach?" says about this tree on page 217:
In the Bible, trees are sometimes used to represent rulership.(Ezekiel 17:22-24;31:2-5) So the chopping down of the symbolic tree represents how God's rulership, as expressed through the kings at Jerasulem, would be interrupted.
Am I the only one who is doing a "WTF!!!?" after this? Daniel says this tree is symbolic of the rulership of Nebuchadnezzar, A FALSE WORSHIPER, Then the Watchtower goes on to say how this represents GODS RULERSHIP?????
COULD THERE BE A BIGGER CONTRAST??? AM I MISSING SOMETHING? Help me out guys, I'm having troubble with this one. Thanks
1914 question
by drew sagan 33 Replies latest watchtower bible
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drew sagan
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Triple A
The WTBTS is very slick at moving from a quick comment to using it as truth.
I always thought it was strange how they say that nothing significant happened at the time of Nebuchadnezzar, so their for this is the bases for the 1914 date and their authority.
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drew sagan
Nothing happened at that time? The dream of the tree pictured just what happened to Nebuchadnezzar. Where are they getting the idea that the dream goes beyond that, and somehow applies to Gods rulership? Daniel was given DIVINE INSTRUCTION as to the meaning of the dream, I don't see anything in his explanation that tells me that the tree somehow stands for anything but Nebuchadnezzars rulership. I still feel like i'm missing something. The Watchtower leaves holes in some of its theories, but this one seems so big. Am I missing something?
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Ticker
Good to meet you Drew.
You will find that the Watchtower authors are very good at drawing beyond what is represented in the scriptures. A common trademark of theirs is the use of buzz words and then adding their own take of what the bible is saying even if their are complete gaps in scripture. Instead of leaving it up to personal conscience, they take the liberty of telling the membership what the bible left out. Yours is one such example.
Ticker
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peacefulpete
To be fair the Wt inherited this spin. Also to be honest this matter of reintepreting ancient passages to make them appear to be meaningful to the present is a staple of Adventism of all stripes.
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Shazard
most fun is that we as free people ar free to use whole secular scholarship to find out what Bible means by things which are not obvious. Sometimes historical and archeological discoveries teaches us how to interpretate Bible. I guess that there are some secular evidences about this period of Nebukadnezar when he were mad. It is even recognized as rare (but not impossible) sickness. This period of the madness was something about 550 year B.C. and even Bible very clearli states that everything Ruler of Babel dreamed fulfilled in his life. So there should be fantastical leap of humans phantasies to such out of this things WT did! Bible is not so hard to understand when you start to believe Gods Word. Then you don't need to be expert in history, languages etc. to believe. Bible is sufficient for everybody who can read to became to Christ without any human guidance, coz HSpirit guides us!
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Dansk
The Watchtower leaves holes in some of its theories, but this one seems so big. Am I missing something?
Hi Drew,
Better men than you and I have tried and are still perplexed! The reason is Watchtower flipflops and lies so much that even it doesn't know what's what anymore. Missing something? Not at all. No one will ever truly get to understand what Watchtower is saying because it doesn't truly understand what it's saying - and when it makes a statement be prepared for that statement to be changed for "new light" in the future, when the really interesting questions will have been conveniently ignored = FORGOTTEN!
Still confused?! Well, what do you expect! We were told for decades that the generation which saw the outbreak of the first world war would still be alive when Armageddon came. In other words, you and I and everyone here would witness God's coming and the cleansing of the earth. But, once Watchtower realised it had finally run out of time, it changed the generation to mean there would always be a wicked generation here when the end finally does come. So now we're all going to die after all but we weren't allowed to question at the time because that would have been considered running ahead and could even have meant being DFd through not towing the Watchtower line - and yet anyone questioning it WAS proven right!
Still confused? Well, that's just what Watchtower wants. I bet you no study conductor is going to be able to answer your question logically.
In other words, one is expected to just imbibe what is given and follow like sheep. You're dangerous because you THINK!
No one will ever get their heads around Watchtower dogma because it's so full of garbage. It still refutes it is wrong about 607BCE and 1914 in spite of all the contrary evidence - and conveniently says nothing, hoping it will just disappear and be forgotten. But we won't let it!
It's time for a coffee Whoops, my wife's just brought me tea!
All the best to you as you try to figure it out. I gave up years ago!
Ian
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Spectrum
Sorry Drew don't know.
But Regarding the 1914 question where did Russell get the 607 date from if the bible didn't support it? Had 587bc already been identified by the secular contemporary or pre scholars of Russell?
I'm not asking for a indepth stuff just a couple of pointers. -
Slave1111
6 In the fourth month, on the ninth day of the month, the famine also got to be severe in the city and there proved to be no bread for the people of the land. 7 Finally the city was broken through; and as regards all the men of war, they began to run away and go forth from the city by night by the way of the gate between the double wall that is by the king’s garden, while the Chal·de´ans were all around against the city; and they kept going by the way of the Ar´a·bah. (Jeremiah 52)
The 2003 Invasion of Iraq began on March 20 comprising United States and United Kingdom forces (98%), and several other nations. The 2003 Iraq invasion marked the beginning of what is commonly referred to as the Iraq War; however the United States never actually declared war on Iraq (but the Congress did pass the "Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq"). Baghdad fell on April 9th, 2003. On May 1, 2003 U.S. president George W. Bush declared the end of major combat operations terminating the Ba'ath Party's rule and removing Iraqi president Saddam Hussein from office. Coalition forces ultimately captured Saddam Hussein on December 13, 2003. A transitional period began thereafter.
Is Iraq modern day babylon? JAH allows military might at His own discretion only until He can take over. He can easily cause influence upon mans thinking in order to accomplish His will. The United States and Great Britain brought war on behalf of what nation? Was it Jerusalem who committed fornication with the kings of the earth? They are making attempt at bringing peace to the region of the middle east. Will man accomplish this, or will Jesus Christ?
There is no need to continue searching for answers in the bible concerning the day or hour. Christ is King in the heavens and prophecy has been fulfilled in the Middle East. Put away your thinking, and look forward to the reign of Jesus Christ, out of the East, Amen.......
The Faithful and Discreet Slave of JAH and CHRIST
T.F.D.S.
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mkr32208
oh no,,, not ANOTHER CRAZY! Slave, are you brownboy again???