Question for you JW's or non JW's about 1935?

by Brutus 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • Kent
    Kent

    *** w99 2/1 17 Our Treasure in Earthen Vessels ***
    16 In the 1930’s the number of “those called and chosen and faithful,” the 144,000, appeared to be filled. (Revelation 17:14; see box on page 19.) We do not know how many of the anointed were gathered in the first century and from among the “weeds” during the dark centuries of Christendom’s great apostasy. But in 1935 there was a worldwide total of 52,465 publishers, out of a peak of 56,153, who indicated their heavenly hope by partaking of the Memorial emblems. What would be the destiny of the many yet to be gathered?

    *** w98 2/15 20 Glorious Freedom Soon for the Children of God ***
    9 After 1935 some Christians who had been partaking of the bread and wine at the Lord’s Evening Meal ceased to partake. Why? Because they realized that their hope was earthly, not heavenly. Said one woman who was baptized in 1930: “Though [partaking] was considered the right thing to do, especially for zealous full-time ministers, I never was convinced that I had a heavenly hope. Then, in 1935, it was made clear to us that there was being gathered a great crowd with the hope of living forever on earth. Many of us rejoiced to understand that we were part of that great crowd, and we ceased partaking of the emblems.” Even Christian publications changed in nature. While those of former years had been designed primarily for Jesus’ spirit-begotten followers, from 1935 onward The Watchtower and other literature of the ‘faithful slave’ provided spiritual food suited to the needs of both the anointed and their associates having the earthly hope.—Matthew 24:45-47.

    *** w97 10/1 23 Grateful for a Long Life in Jehovah's Service ***
    In 1935 we came to understand that the “great crowd” was not a secondary heavenly class. We learned that it instead represents a class that survives the great tribulation and has the opportunity of living forever in Paradise on earth.

    *** w96 7/1 20 The Triumph of True Worship Draws Near ***
    Particularly from the year 1935, they have been joined by the international “great crowd,” foretold in the book of Revelation. These too are dedicated, baptized Christians and have “washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb,” Jesus Christ. (Revelation 7:9, 14) However, they are not anointed ones, with the hope of heavenly life. Their hope is to inherit what Adam and Eve lost, namely, perfect human life on a paradise earth.

    *** w95 2/1 13-14 A Great Crowd of True Worshipers-From Where Have They Come? ***
    But there were not millions who embraced God’s provisions for life at that time. In the majority who did accept the truth, holy spirit engendered the hope of heavenly life. Especially after 1935, however, a marked change took place. It was not that The Watchtower had ignored the hope of eternal life on earth. For decades Jehovah’s servants had talked about this and had looked for those who fit the Bible’s description. In Jehovah’s due time, though, he saw to it that these manifested themselves.

    *** w95 2/15 8 There Will Be a Resurrection of the Righteous ***
    3 Beginning in 1935, ‘the faithful slave’ has concentrated on locating such sheeplike ones and bringing them into Jehovah’s organization. (Matthew 24:45; John 10:16) These teachable Christians have come to realize that Jesus is now reigning in Jehovah’s heavenly Kingdom and that the time is fast approaching for the end of this wicked system of things and the ushering in of a new world in which righteousness is to dwell.

    *** w95 5/15 20 Flashes of Light-Great and Small (Part 1) ***
    18 In 1935 a bright flash of light revealed that the great crowd mentioned at Revelation 7:9-17 was not a secondary heavenly class. It had been thought that the ones mentioned in those verses were some of the anointed who had not been fully faithful and so were standing before the throne instead of sitting on thrones reigning as kings and priests with Jesus Christ. But there simply is no such thing as being partially faithful

    *** w94 5/1 28-9 Sustained by the God Who Cannot Lie ***
    I never was convinced that I had a heavenly hope. Then, in 1935, it was made clear to us that there was being gathered a great crowd with the hope of living forever on earth. Many of us rejoiced to understand that we were part of that great crowd, and we ceased partaking of the emblems.

    *** w91 3/15 19 Who Really Have a Heavenly Calling? ***
    After Pentecost 33 C.E., however, Jehovah gave a heavenly hope to a “little flock.” (Luke 12:32) But what has happened in recent times? Since 1931 the Kingdom message has focused more attention on the “other sheep,” and from 1935 onward God has been drawing “a great crowd” of such sheeplike ones to himself through Christ.

    *** w89 4/1 29 A Wonderful Career ***
    Even in 1935, when the “great crowd” of Revelation chapter 7 was identified as an earthly class of “sheep,” our thinking was not altered. (Revelation 7:9; John 10:16) Then in 1952, The Watchtower on page 63 published a clarification of the distinction between the earthly hope and the heavenly hope. We came to realize that we did not have the hope of heavenly life, but that our hope was of life on a paradise earth

    *** w89 6/1 12 Perfecting Holiness in God's Fear ***
    Since 1935 an increasing great crowd of “other sheep” have likewise heeded this call and have abandoned unclean Babylonish religion.

    *** w88 3/1 12 My Life in Jehovah's Spirit-Directed Organization ***
    Early in 1935, some six months after my release from prison and return to Bethel, I recall a number of discussions at the Bethel table regarding the identity of the “great multitude.” (Revelation 7:9, 13, King James Version) Some expressed support for the view that this was a secondary heavenly class, even as the first president of the Watch Tower Society, Brother Russell, had taught.

    *** w84 2/15 20 The Recent Pen for "Other Sheep" ***
    16 Has the difference of hopes—the heavenly hope for the sheep in “this fold” and the earthly hope for the other sheep belonging to the recently provided other fold—influenced them into parting company from one another as if they had nothing in common? Developments since the year 1935 answer, Positively No!

    *** w84 9/15 14-15 "All Israel Will Be Saved" ***
    18 What followed indicated that the gathering of the dedicated, baptized “chosen ones” for the heavenly Kingdom had been accomplished. How so? Because in the year 1935 the attention and efforts of those “chosen ones” were directed to the “great multitude” forevisioned in Revelation 7:9-17.

    *** w84 12/1 30 My Lifetime of Changes for Jehovah ***
    How happy we were when, in 1935, the light brightened so as to show us who make up the “great crowd” mentioned in Revelation 7:9-17. They were not a secondary heavenly class and so would not partake of the emblematic wine and unleavened bread at the annual Memorial of Christ’s death.

    *** w83 7/1 22 The Live Men of Faith Who Will Never Die ***
    On May 31, 1935, the Society’s president spoke at the Washington Convention and identified the “other sheep” with the “great multitude” foreseen in Revelation 7:9-17.

    *** w82 2/1 28 "Born Again"-Man's Part and God's Part ***
    Under its direction the heavenly hope was held out, highlighted and stressed until about the year 1935.

    *** w82 2/15 30 "What Prevents Me from Getting Baptized?" ***
    it seems evident that the heavenly calling in general was completed about the year 1935, when the hope of the “great crowd” of Revelation 7:9-17 was properly understood to be an earthly one.

    *** w79 1/15 21 How the Day of Reckoning Is Worked Out for Our Good ***
    Those virgin companions therefore picture the “great crowd” who began appearing in this “time of the end” and who join themselves to the remnant of the bride class before these leave the earthly scene to join the Bridegroom Jesus Christ in heaven. Quite in keeping with this, the “great crowd,” as foretold in Revelation 7:9-17, began forming in 1935 and associating themselves with the last members of the spirit-begotten bride class.

    *** w70 6/15 382-3 Questions from Readers ***
    Even in modern times, until about 1935, the call continued to go forth to bring in the remaining ones of the 144,000, or the “remnant.” Since then, however, the emphasis has been primarily on gathering the “great crowd” of “other sheep,” who have earthly hopes.

    *** w55 5/15 315 Christian Channel of Communication ***
    Only the anointed remnant have experienced this since the years 1932 and 1935.

    *** w54 3/1 153 Restoration of True Religion Today ***
    Since 1935 one class has been decreasing in numbers on earth, while the other class has been increasing until today there are hundreds of thousands of the “great crowd” rejoicing in the hope of life on earth,

    Yakki Da

    Kent

    "The only difference between a fool and the JW legal department is that a fool might be sympathetic ."

    Daily News On The Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses:
    http://watchtower.observer.org

  • IslandWoman
    IslandWoman

    The JW 1935 doctrine cannot be proven from the Bible because it is not IN the Bible. It is based not on the Bible but on the teachings of Watchtower leaders long dead.

    The February 1, 1999 Watchtower, in a box entitled "No More Additions!" on page 19 gives us a fine example.

    "At a Gilead graduation in 1970, Frederick Franz, then vice-president of the Watch Tower society, told the students of the possibility that they, who were all of the other sheep with earthly hopes, might baptize someone who might claim to be of the anointed remnant. Could this happen? Well, he explained that John the Baptist was of the other sheep, and baptized Jesus and some of the apostles. Then he went on to ask whether there still was a call for gathering in more of the remnant. 'No, no more additions!' he said. 'That call ended way back there in 1931-35! There are no more additions. Who, then, are the few newly associated ones who are partaking of the Memorial emblems? If they are of the remnant, they are replacements! They are, not additions to the ranks of the anointed, but replacements for those who may have fallen away.'"

    The Watchtower leaders decided when the modern day "calling" started and when it ended. It's remindful of that old saying, "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away!"

    BTW, it is interesting to note that the last five GB members that were added are all from the post 1935 generation of partakers. The question could be asked that since the Watchtower feels these men are "replacements" for fallen anointed it is then most fortunate that five of the anointed members did "fall" otherwise who would be there to help out the GB?

  • eby
    eby

    The May 1, 2001, page 14 has an article entitled 'Behold! The Great Crowd!'
    It gives some history of the development of the Great Crowd doctrine. The "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" gave hope of living through Armageddon everlastingly on earth. WT of 1923 identified the sheep of "the sheep and the goats" (Ma. 25.31-46) as not spirit-begotten. In 1931 "Vindication" book said Jehonadab (2Kings 10:15-28) represented "the ones whom the Lord will preserve during the time of Armageddon, take them through that trouble, and give them everlasting life on the earth. These constitute the 'sheep' class."

    With this background of the ever nearness of Armageddon and the possibility of living forever on earth --"The Watchtower had expressed the hope that a convention scheduled for May 30 to June 3, 1935 , in Washington, D.C., U.S.A., would be 'a real comfort and benefit' to those pictured by Jehonadab. And that it proved to be!"

    Page 15, Wt. May 15, 2001:
    "In a stirring talk on 'The Great Multitude,' delivered to about 20,000 conventioners, J. F. Rutherford presented Scriptural proof that the modern-day 'Other sheep' are identical with that 'great crowd' of Revelation 7:9. (John 10:16) At the climax of this talk, the speaker asked: 'Will all those who have the hope of living forever on the earth please stand?' As a large part of the audience stood up, Rutherford declared: 'Behold! The great multitude!' There was a hush, followed by loud cheering. On the following day, 840 new Witnesses of Jehovah were baptized, most of these professing to be of the great crowd.

    A Remarkable Presence
    Prior to 1935, an increasing number of those who responded to the Bible's message and showed zeal in preaching the good news manifested an interest in living forever on the Paradise earth. They had no desire to go to heaven for God had not given them the hope of heavenly life. Their identifying themselves with the great crowd of other sheep indicated that by 1935 the calling of the 144,000 anointed Christians was virtually complete.--Revelation 7:4."

    The above seems to be an attempt to explain how they came up with the 1935 date.

    eby

  • Kent
    Kent
    'No, no more additions!' he said. 'That call ended way back there in 1931-35! There are no more additions. Who, then, are the few newly associated ones who are partaking of the Memorial emblems? If they are of the remnant, they are replacements! They are, not additions to the ranks of the anointed, but replacements for those who may have fallen away.'"

    As I have said many times, this IS interesting. Interesting because the numbers of the so called "remnant" is RISING - and has done so for years.

    So, these "replacements" are replacements from "those who may have fallen away" after arriving in Heaven!

    I believe it was a huge error on Jehovah's part to allow Booze Rutherford in there. He most probably has set up a new smuggler-route from Canada - this time to Heaven. And the replaced ones are the ones stepping outside a cloud, dead drunk, falling to the earth getting themselves killed. LOL

    Yakki Da

    Kent

    "The only difference between a fool and the JW legal department is that a fool might be sympathetic ."

    Daily News On The Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses:
    http://watchtower.observer.org

  • Brutus
    Brutus

    Ok 3 more follow up questions:

    1. Were ANY of the publications that stated 1935 as the year, INSPIRED?

    2. Was the Writer of those articles INSPIRED?

    3. WAS J.F. Rutherford INSPIRED WHEN he gave that talk in DC stating that 1935 was the date?

  • Vienna
    Vienna

    Interesting to note that Judge Rutherford said he received a "revelation" to this effect that the year 1935 filled the slots for 144,000. Could it of been bad chili that made him have this "revelation"?

    Knowing this, how can a JW base his whole SALVATION on some revelation some guy had?

    Why is your salvation at stake? Because no where in the Bible does Jesus limit the citizenship of heaven to 144,000 people--if you use the references in Rev. 7 or 14, there is NO SUCH VERSE that limits those who go to heaven!

    Guess who's in heaven in Revelation? The 144,000 (14:3), the angels (7:11), the 24 elders (5:8), and guess who else: the great crowd in Rev. 7:9 (see also 19:1).

    JWs have no clue where they are going when they die, because what the Bible teaches and what the Watchtower teaches are TWO differant things. I think you should find out right away. Shelf life of humans: 75 years. Get busy!!!

  • Fredhall
    Fredhall

    Most of YOU are screwing everything up. Just listen to yourselves. YOU guys sound like one big fat orgy.

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