Wait a mintue?!
AuldSoul are you sure about this? So Adam and Eve living forever was not the original plan of God?
Can someone elaborate? I mean, they ate the fruit, they were expelled from the gardem, they grew old and died?
JWD WAS ABLE TO CONVINCE ME THE PARADISE WAS A MYTH BUT...
by stillAwitness 61 Replies latest jw friends
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mkr32208
Facts were stated about how our body is designed to live forever (the brain, blood vessels etc) and how all these intricate details about the human body raises us to ask the question: "Did not Jehovah design us with the purpose of living forever?"
I call bullshit on that! What does the intricate detail have to do with us living forever? If our bodies were simple then we wouldn't be functional its just that easy!
As to DESIGNED to live forever... What a load of crap! Our cells are "designed" To reproduce themselves 50-70 times MAX every time the cells reproduce the DNA chain gets shorter eventually the cell stops reproducing! As the chain gets shorter the copies of the cell that they are producing begin to break down (think of it as making copies of copies of copies etc...) Hence a muscle cell that was produced while you were young will not be the same cell that's produced 65 years later, that cell will be much more rigid, easily damaged, harder to repair etc... This is GREAT for evolution (evolution does not WANT you to live forever) but really shitty for an "intelligent designer..."
Of course this is the leading theory and as it is a theory you might want to stick you head up your ass and believe in jehober... (make sure you leave enough room in your ass for your bible and a candle)
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mkr32208
incidentally there are a form or cells that don't seem to suffer from this DNA shortening problem... They're called CANCER...
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AuldSoul
I'm sure that according to the Bible they knew what death was, and I'm sure according to the Bible they were growing, and I'm sure that according to the Bible God said they would need to eat of the tree of life to live forever, which was why the Bible says they were expelled.
I'm also sure the Bible says they could eat of EVERY tree in the garden ("gan" in Hebrew) except the one in the middle of the garden and God said they had to be expelled so they would not be able to find and eat from the tree of life. That tree must not have been in the garden if they couldn't eat from it either, LOL!
Where was the tree of life? (Revelation 2:7) Check out what the Revelation Climax book says about that verse. After the congregants of Ephesus received their REWARD for CONQUERING they would be able to eat of the tree of life, in the paradise of God.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
yaddayadda
hey Undecided. The word 'trinity' is not even mentioned once in the bible but 99% of Christians believe it.
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JustTickledPink
WHY would people live forever when the natural thing is the cycle of life? Did you know that EVERYTHING has a cycle? I mean think about it. Water has a cycle, it's in the clouds, it's rain, then it's part of a river, then it goes underground, then it's part of a waterfall, then it gets evaporated and starts as a cloud again. Rocks have cycles. Plants have cycles. There is always rebirth, life and death in nature. WHY should people live forever? That makes no sense to me when EVERY living thing including plants, animals, etc all die off when their time comes.
Living forever is a myth, a fairy tale, the reality is that we are all born, we all have a limited amount of years and we should make the MOST of our lives.... then we have to accept that we will die eventually. The sooner we accept the cycle of life the sooner you can start LIVING YOUR LIFE. If you live your entire life based on the mythical idea of a future paradise then you will literally waste the REAL YEARS of your life.
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cyberdyne systems 101
Having just read the new testament over christmas for the first time in a complete reading and without watchtower bias, I came to conclude what had bothered me for a long time that it was surely a heavenly hope.
Also as has been mentioned what was the original purpose for man? Do we really know? Witnesses assume if they (Adam & Eve) never ate of the forbidden fruit man would never have died, but what seems to be indicated is that he would have needed to have eaten from the tree of life, and so all God did was prevent that, so he was always going to die until God gave him the fruit of that tree - which must have been his purpose. So the scripture in Revelation that I think Auld refered to is linking a restoration of God's original purpose but we know these were going to heaven. At least thats how I read it.
Also one further point, say they didnt eat of the forbidden fruit and lived forever as you suggest (or the Watchtower does at least) then were they to have been ignorant of right and wrong not being aware of their nakedness too, will that be your hope in paradise in line with the original purpose as you see it??
I really dont think God's complete purpose was fulfilled so we can not catagorically say what it really was can we.
Arnie
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TheListener
This discussion is very interesting.
I'd sort of thought that there would be a paradise earth with more than just dubs in it. But, this whole discussion of Adam & Even and what they expected brings new light to the subject.
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jaffacake
A good thread. Just a couple of quick thoughts to throw in.
Firstly, when we learn from the Bible what it teaches about its own form, or its own meaning, we will realise that Adam and Eve were not two people, but were symbolic of the origins of humankind. The question of whether these two so-called individuals were intended to live forever just does not arise.
Confession,
13 But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise, and in these righteousness is to dwell.
Not sure what you mean to say by quoting that scripture. For me it is confirmation that there will be no material earth. Like most of scriptures this is all symbolic not literal. It is clear to me that there will not be any earthly materialistic everlasting life, nor should such a materialistic form of spirituality be something any Christian would aspire to. Paul puts it bluntly "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" (1 Cor 15:50)
A new heaven and a new earth - a new cosmos will come into being as the physical passes away? The hope for eternal life is hope for life in the presence of the eternal God. The truth is that the fundamental reality, from which all else springs, is the reality of spirit. God is spirit (John 4:24). The JW vision is a very limited one, and a betrayal of what the Bible teaches. A tragically restricted view of the unlimitless love of God. It sadly appeals to the material desires of humankind, who can't let go of the physical. In my view JWs are a materialistic and worldly people.
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