Spectrum:You're making the classic JW mistake of believing that the Roman Catholic church is the only denomination in Christendom. We wont hold it against you because we were taught that, too, however it is wildly erroneous. The best thing you can do is research it properly with open eyes.
why do so many religions claim that Jesus is God?
by evergreen 77 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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LittleToe
We cross-posted, which is a little like cross-dressing, but without the stares
A number of churches go door-to-door, have street witnessing events, rallies, radio, tracting, informal peer-to-peer witnessing, as well as an open church that everyone can go to if they feel the desire. That's before you start with the Telly-Evangelists
Just because we were told that no-one else does it (blatant lie - the Mormons overtly do, for starters), doesn't mean that what we were taught was true. Most denominations simply don't "blow a trumpet" in front of themselves (Matt.6:2), they just get on with it, with little fanfare.
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evergreen
I can't agree with you on this. According to the gospel accounts, Jesus was protected by God several times, starting with saving him from King Herod's murder of male children. Later, ;Jesus did things like clear the money changers from the temple and to call the Pharisees offspring of vipers, to their faces in public. ;Jesus was kept from harm until God removed his protection from him in the Garden of Gethsemene.
I still maintain that if Jesus was God, he would have made it very ;clear. ;Jesus never once said he was God.
Without causing offense to anyone on this subject and whats more i have appreciated everyone taking the time to express their views, but i would have to agree with the above thought by flyinghighnow. Even when you think about Jesus praying to his father in Gethsemane . matthew 26:38-44. Three times he had to pray to God for strength to overcome any weaknesses he had about his coming death to the point where he was sweating drops of blood. luke 22 :44
Why would Jesus even have to pray to God in the first place for such strength. Surely if he was God he would have his own inner strength to go through with his coming death without praying to anyone else .
Even in the lords prayer Matthew 6:9 RSV. He told his followers how to pray "our father ........ ( not pray to me)
Other scriptures point out that Jesus was on his way to his Father and that his Father was greater than him john 14:28
The scriptures point out that jesus after his death was elevated to a higher position ( not to the highest postion) NWT or god has highly exalted him RSV to which every knee should bend. And quite rightly so! philippians 2 :9-11.
It doesnt say he became part of a triune God along with the holy spirit But both Jesus christ and the holy spirit have a major role to play in helping chritians to worship God.
From what i take from the scriptures and especially in the way i pray to God is that there is Our heavenly father god the almighty ( his name i will keep for another discussion). I pray to him directly through our lord and saviour Jesus Christ asking that Jesus come into my life and lead me in the right direction. John 14:6 RSV
Also we have Gods helper/counselor, the holy spirit to give us that further strength. john14:26 RSV
And of course i view all three as being united in the one purpose. but each being separate and distinct.
That is what i take from my reading of the scriptures and cant see anything other than that. I often wonder to the average person why God would complicate things so much to the point where everything gets fudged .Surely he would make his word simple that the ordinary person on the street could understand and worship him in the way he wished!
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hibiscusfire
My short answer:
Because In the begining was the Word (Jesus) and the Word (Jesus) was with God and the Word (Jesus) was God....
later on
He was in the world and the world knew Him not.
Hibiscusfire
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observador
I didn't read all the other posts, but the short answer is: because the Bible says so.
Now, does the Bible say that Jesus is the son of God? YES, it says that too!!!
Go figure... :) -
LittleToe
Evergreen:
Noone is saying that Jesus is the Father. That's not the Trinity at all, though the JWs would have folks believe it was.As for prayer, I guess that Stephen guy must have been right out of order, huh? Especially seeing as Jesus was allegedly in the presence of the Father (at the right hand of power) when he was being addressed with the self-same kind of words that Jesus is alleged to have used to the Father in his dying moments!
Gee, I wonder where those danged Christians got the idea of praying to Jesus from?
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evergreen
LT
As for prayer, I guess that Stephen guy must have been right out of order, huh? ; Especially seeing as Jesus was allegedly in the presence of the Father (at the right hand of power) when he was being addressed with the self-same kind of words that Jesus is alleged to have used to the Father in his dying moments!
I dont deny that jesus was sitting at the right hand of power because the scriptures say that. I also dont deny that Stephen in his last moments before his cruel death prayed for jesus to receive his spirit . Remember Jesus did appear to his disciples after he was raised and Jesus did tell them he would be with them allways untill the close of the age.
So to Stephen Jesus was as real to him as when he was living on earth and still looked to him as if he was still there. He probably being an eyewtness to many of the miracles he performed.
But what i get from this passage of scripture is that because stephen was sacraficing his very life for his absolute faith in his master and teacher and with the above in mind, his last words were him crying out to his master to forgive them because as jesus had told his followers that he was given authority in heaven and on earth. ( note he was given this authority). And because he was given this authority stephen was right in asking him to use his authority to forgive them.
what i get from this is that he was really saying to Jesus remember me my lord, i am following you even unto death for the sake of truth.
As i have said before , ever since i became a JW , i was always troubled by the way the society seemed to keep Jesus in the background . Especially their teaching that Micheal the arch angel was jesus christ glorified .
I always felt strongly even as a witness that Jesus should be playing a much more important role in our lives. But the FDS has been placed in that position instead.
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LittleToe
Agreed.
Nonetheless, the general perspective on it in most Christian denominations (back to the thread title) is that Stephen at least viewed Jesus in the way that Jesus viewed the Father. The account is just too parallel. Even if you only accept it as a story, it seems obvious that this is the point that the writers were trying to convey. To the writers Jesus is God (see also John 20:28).
IMHO