[quote]Interesting analogy. It doesn't quite work though. JWs aren't just telling people they must behave a certain way. They tell people they must be part of an organisation, and that the organisation is identifiable because its members behave a certain way. If that claim is false, then their self-identification as a pure unblemished organisation must be questioned, even if some of their doctrines are true.[/quote] That's the thing though. I can't look at it in terms of behavior because, really, what family or organization doesn't have it's flaws? People are imperfect, and are going to error. I just personally have never seen the relationship between behavior and plain doctrine. If the doctrine is true, then not agreeing with the behavior of certain people in the organization is actually moot, because that's not the primary reason to be there. Actually knowing that humans are imperfect, I take this into account before making a decision based on actual biblical facts. So, if the organization is teaching true doctrine, and one acknowledges believing the doctrine, then one must be part of said organization regardless of the organization making mistakes like becoming an NGO. Because becoming an NGO and there being a hell or not have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
I'm new here and have lots of questions
by jaada 42 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Saboteur
Oh my goodness.
Can someone please tell me how to quote something? Obviously [quote] doesn't work.
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Saboteur
Why do JWs claim to not celebrate Christmas or birthdays, but will accept gifts?
______________Because Christmas originates from the celebration Saturnalia, which was a celebration to the Roman god Saturn. Birthdays originate from the Roman religion Mithraism.
Merely accepting gifts is just that, accepting gifts. But participating in those two things is different because they originate with Roman religions to Roman gods.
______________Haven't there been a great deal of false prophecies by the WTS? Why don't these fasle prophecies seem to alarm or repel any of JWs? Do they not notice, or not care?
______________A prophecy would be making a prophecy about the future. Which witnesses have not done.
What Witnesses have done is try to interpret what Jesus meant by 'this generation will by no means pass'. Those words were already there, the gentiles times were already written about as well. Witnesses themselves made no prophecies, just attempts at interpreting what was meant by 'this generation', as in 'does it mean the generation born in 1914'?
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Super_Becka
Welcome to the board!! Stick around, there's lots of good people here with lots of good advice and information to share!!
-Becka :)
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AuldSoul
Sab,
RE: teacher analogy
I think I understand what you are asking. Let me rephrase it to check. If what the teacher says is TRUE, is it proved FALSE by her behavior that is inconsistent with what she said?
If that's wrong, ignore the following. It will read like a lot of bothersome noise. However, if I have your point correctly in mind, please consider:
Your analogy is flawed if you try to compare it to Witnesses. Unless the teacher says to look at the fruitage she bears as evidence she is telling the truth, her behavior would have no impact whatsoever on her credibility or the truth of her statements. In the case of the Watchtower Society:
*** w03 12/1 pp. 15-16 “Show Yourselves Thankful” ***
4 Though far removed from a physical paradise, Jehovah’s servants today relish living in a spiritual paradise. In our Kingdom Halls and at our conventions and assemblies, we experience the fruitage of God’s spirit at work in our fellow believers. Indeed, when preaching to people who have little or no religious background, some Witnesses refer to what Paul described in his letter to the Galatians. They first draw attention to “the works of the flesh” and ask their listeners what they have observed. (Galatians 5:19-23) Most readily agree that these characterize human society today. When shown the description of the fruitage of God’s spirit and upon being invited to the local Kingdom Hall to see evidence of this for themselves, many quickly acknowledge: “God is really among you.” (1 Corinthians 14:25) And this is not limited to the local Kingdom Hall. Travel where you may, when you meet any of the more than six million Witnesses of Jehovah, you find the same happy, joyous spirit. Truly, this upbuilding association is reason for giving thanks to Jehovah, the one who supplies his spirit to make it possible.—Zephaniah 3:9; Ephesians 3:20, 21.Evidence of God's spirit is in the behavior of Jehovah's Witnesses. As recently as 2003, this is their stand. "Travel where you may, when you meet any of the more than six million Witnesses of Jehovah, you find the same happy, joyous spirit." I have done. I find a lot of pasted on smiles and wrecked lives literally dying waiting for the "something better" around the next bend. They are looking forward to the New System because THEIR lives are miserable, not because the lives of all humanity are miserable.
Now, if the teacher in your analogy had invited the students to look for evidence in the life of their teacher, you might have a point. However, if the teacher did so without living an exemplary life that demonstrated that she practiced what she preached she would be marked CORRECTLY as a hypocrite.
This organization invites us to examine the behavior of Witnesses to determine if Jehovah's spirit is there. I did. So have others. Have you? Or do you prefer to pretend that anything evidencing works of the flesh is only an individual problem? Let's move on to see what we can find out about elders:
*** it-2 p. 272 Lot, I ***
But we do not read of lots being used after Pentecost 33 C.E. for selecting overseers and their assistants or to decide matters of importance. Selection of overseers and their assistants was to be based on the evidence of the fruitage of the holy spirit in their lives (1Ti 3; Tit 1), while other decisions were based on the fulfillment of prophecy, angelic guidance, the principles of God’s Word and Jesus’ teachings, and the direction of holy spirit. (Ac 5:19-21; 13:2, 3; 14:23; 15:15-19, 28) The apostle Paul states: “All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial . . . for setting things straight.”—2Ti 3:16.Ah. So we look for evidence of holy spirit where? And what if we don't find the evidence? "We" being the publishers or students, of course. What if we only find an outward show of the evidence? Is holy spirit that easily fooled?
I think you should at least reconsider your analogy, since there is no possibility for hypocrisy inherent in it.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
jwfacts
Welcome,
You are right when you say it does not make sense that every non witness will be destroyed, that opened your eyes enough to escape.
The only thing that distinguishes the JWs is their total allegiance to the Watchtower Society. Once you prove that the Org is not directed by Holy Spirit and was not chosen by Jesus in 1919 you will no longer have to consider if any of their doctrines are correct or not.
It does not matter if it is the last days and is not worth worrying about. What matters is that you love God and neighbour. If you do then if the last days arrive you can be confident God will be with you. The reason the bible says no one would know the day or hour is so that people would continue to 'keep on the watch', not be serving for a date.
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jwfacts
Welcome,
You are right when you say it does not make sense that every non witness will be destroyed, that opened your eyes enough to escape.
The only thing that distinguishes the JWs is their total allegiance to the Watchtower Society. Once you prove that the Org is not directed by Holy Spirit and was not chosen by Jesus in 1919 you will no longer have to consider if any of their doctrines are correct or not.
It does not matter if it is the last days and is not worth worrying about. What matters is that you love God and neighbour. If you do then if the last days arrive you can be confident God will be with you. The reason the bible says no one would know the day or hour is so that people would continue to 'keep on the watch', not be serving for a date.
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jambon
The fear thing is strange.
The org say that catholics kept people in fear for years by means of the `cruel` hellfire teaching. - granted, it is an insane and cruel teaching, but how can they not see that imminent death at armageddon (if your not a jw) is any different.
If you look at the back of the latest kids book `learn from the great teacher` you can see the most horrific picture of teenagers and others dying at armageddon. This book is recomended for 8 years and upward! I just about ripped that page out when we got our copy, i was disgusted.
You see, its all the same thing - keep them frightened and they will stay in the religion. The thing is, this must be terrifying for a child growing up with this on their mind.
Loving, caring god? Hmm
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Clam
Hi Jaada
Welcome and stick around to learn from mainly cool, happy and smart people.
I experienced a lot of clairvoyance as a kid but was told by my JW sister that it was demons who were talking to me and showing themselves to me. It took me years to get over this idea and now I'm very happy as a spiritualist, although this is more a personal relationship with my idea of a creator than as part of a "church". I continue to be fascinated by the life and words of Jesus Christ, but also by Buddha and other teachers.
Having been indoctrinated by the KH Thought Police during my impressionable teens I wandered through life for quite a few years carrying their negative implants. I had physically left but I still had their influence in my mind and attitudes for a few years to follow. When I think back I'm astounded how I carried such pointless and nonsensical baggage. I can't think of the full list right now but stuff like: Homophobia, g oing into any other type of church, blood transfusions and bleeding meat,
crucifixes and any catholic imagery, etc.
Try and get them out of your mind. Sounds easier than it is I know.
I believe we are created by a loving entity who won't be trashing 6 billion people as part of his master plan to conclude a story which started with Eve eating some fruit. It's all too daft.
If anything, Karma will be dealing with the liars, child abusers, hypocrites and monsters that pose as "the true church".
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Jake99
You have nothing to fear at the second coming, for if you stand behind the messiah as your leader you will be saved from this world and enter into the next. Its nothing more than one proven leader who has been performing many miracles and prophecies, revealing himself and being given charge of the entire planet, using one simple system that a child could understand and comply with, easily and almost automatically.
The money changer and lines on the map will be gone and religion will have no bearing on the way the world operates. Then you can throw all the religious books away or compare them to what actually happened to see which part of which religion was right and which was wrong.