144000....DO THE NUMBERS ADD UP?????

by chuckyy 44 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • chuckyy
    chuckyy

    AS JWS WE WERE TOLD ONLY 144000 GO TO HEAVEN FROM THE TIME OF CHRIST RIGHT UP TO THIS DAY.IT DAWNED ON ME BEFORE I WAS BAPTIZED ONE DAY DURING MY STUDY THAT THE NUMBERS DONT ADD UP. THE BROTHER WAS TELLING ME THAT THE ROMAN PERSECUTIONS OF THE CHRISTIANS WERE KILLING THOUSANDS EVERY WEEK. INITIALLY, WITHIN WEEKS OF JESUS DEATH, THERE WERE 5000 CHRISTIANS AT LEAST IN JERUSALEM. A FEW DECADES LATER, PAUL SAID THAT CHRISTIANITY HAD BEEN PREACHED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE KNOWN WORLD. SINCE THEN, 1900 YEARS HAVE PASSED BY WITH MANY GENUINE CONVERTS THROUGHOUT THE AGES AS EVEN THE WATCHTOWER ADMITS. COUPLED WITH THIS ,SINCE THE 1870S UNTIL NOW, TENS OF THOUSANDS OF WITNESSES HAVE CLAIMED THE HEAVENLY CALLING. SO MY QUESTION IS:

    DO THE NUMBERS ADD UP. HAVE THERE BEEN ONLY 144000 FAITHFUL CHRISTIANS FROM THE DAY OF PENTECOST, THROUGH THE ROMAN PERSECUTION, THROUGH 1900 YEARS OF CHRISTIANITY UNTIL NOW??? WHAT DO YOU THINK???

  • PMJ
    PMJ

    just because there was faithul men and women through those 1900 years doesnt mean all of them were chosen to be part of the 144000

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul
    just because there was faithul men and women through those 1900 years doesnt mean all of them were chosen to be part of the 144000

    PMJ, that view contradicts the direct statements of Watchtower Society publications. They assert that ANY Christian considered faithful prior to 1935 would have the heavenly hope, and would be part of the 144,000.

    It is so sad when someone of your absolute certainty knows so little about your own organization's dogma.

    AuldSoul

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    So PMJ why weren't all faithful men chosen to go to heaven? Are the JW annointed any better than them?

  • PMJ
    PMJ

    as seen as i no so little please direct me to the watchtower article that says that?thanks

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    Ask, and ye shall receive, oh misled one:

    *** w03 2/15 p. 19 What Does the Lord’s Evening Meal Mean to You? ***
    8 Over the centuries, genuine anointed ones grew as “wheat” in a field of “weeds,” or false Christians. (Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43) Since the 1870’s, the “wheat” became increasingly evident, and some years later anointed Christian overseers were told: “The elders . . . should set before those who assemble themselves [for the Memorial] these terms and conditions,—(1) faith in the blood [of Christ]; and (2) consecration to the Lord and his service, even unto death. They should then invite all who are thus minded and thus consecrated to join in celebrating the Lord’s death.”—Studies in the Scriptures, Series VI, The New Creation, page 473.
    *** w02 2/1 p. 20 Have You Received “the Spirit of the Truth”? ***
    6 This “heavenly calling” began at Pentecost 33 C.E. and, in the main, appears to have ended in the mid-1930’s. (Hebrews 3:1) The number of those sealed by the holy spirit to be part of spiritual Israel is 144,000, “bought from among mankind.” (Revelation 7:4; 14:1-4) These were baptized into the spiritual body of Christ, into his congregation, and into his death. (Romans 6:3; 1 Corinthians 12:12, 13, 27; Ephesians 1:22, 23) After their water baptism and anointing with holy spirit, they entered into a sacrificial course, a life of integrity until their death.—Romans 6:4, 5.
    *** uw chap. 14 pp. 111-112 ‘I Make a Covenant With You for a Kingdom’ ***
    4 At Pentecost of 33 C.E. the first of them were anointed with holy spirit. (Acts 2:1-4; 2 Cor. 1:21, 22) God’s provision for salvation leading to immortal heavenly life was made known. Peter used “the keys of the kingdom of the heavens” to open up this knowledge—first to the Jews, next to the Samaritans, and then to people of the Gentile nations. (Matt. 16:19) Special attention was being given to making up the government that would rule mankind for 1,000 years, and nearly all the inspired letters in the Christian Greek Scriptures are primarily directed to this group of Kingdom heirs—“the holy ones,” “partakers of the heavenly calling.”
    5 Their being called to heavenly life was not because they were somehow better than all the servants of God who had died before Pentecost of 33 C.E. (Matt. 11:11) Rather, Jehovah now had begun to select those who would be associate rulers with Jesus Christ. For some 19 centuries after this there was only one calling, the heavenly one. It was an undeserved kindness that God bestowed on a limited number in furtherance of his own wise and loving purposes.—Eph. 2:8-10.
    6 In time the prescribed but limited number of 144,000 would be filled. The final sealing of these spiritual Israelites as approved would be near. (Rev. 7:1-8) Then Jehovah, by means of his spirit and the understanding of his Word that he made possible for his visible organization, would direct matters so as to fulfill another part of his purpose, as described in Revelation 7:9-17. A “great crowd” out of all nations would be gathered, with the thrilling prospect of surviving the great tribulation and living forever in perfection amid an earthly Paradise. When we consider what has actually occurred, it seems evident that the heavenly calling in general was completed by about the year 1935 C.E., when the earthly hope of the “great crowd” was clearly discerned. Since then there have been brought into association with the comparatively few thousand remaining ones of the heavenly class millions of worshipers of Jehovah who are earnestly hoping to live forever right here on earth.

    So, according to your organization's dogma, there was only one hope for the faithful for 19 centuries, and fewer than 144,000 availed themseves of it as true Christians. Plausible or implausible. Your previous answer demonstrated disagreement with their published viewpoint.

    Perhaps your answer is different, now that you know what they teach. Soon, we will see once again whether you agree with a Corporation or the leadings of Holy Spirit that act on you individually. I know what my guess is about which one you will choose to heed, but it is just a guess. You can always prove me wrong. In fact, I hope I am wrong.

    AuldSoul

  • chuckyy
    chuckyy

    PMJ

    DOES THIS IMPLY THAT THE THOUSANDS OF MEN /WOMEN WHO DIED IN THE ROMAN ARENAS, UNDERWENT HORRIFIC DEATHS FOR NOTHING??....THAT THERE WAS NO REWARD FROM GOD FOR THESE UNSELFISH ACTS OF FAITHFULNESS???

    RESPECTFULLY

    CHUKYY

  • PMJ
    PMJ

    we both agree that over the period of 1900 years.there was 144000 selected what your saying is any one who professed to be christian would be granted to be in that class of 14400 correct?what i was saying was jehovah would of selected ones he felt were to be rulers with christ.or are you telling me you new the hearts of all these people who lived through the 1900 years?

  • PMJ
    PMJ

    hey im not the judge you seem to think there is no reward for all the faithull jehovahs wittnesses correct? pratice what you preach

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    Unfortunately one of the worse things that the JWs believe is that after the apostle John's death the Christian Church at once went apostate and all the martyrs after that point can not be genuine.

    It's a ridiculous idea as much as it is loathsome and unfounded in history. They are more interested in sustaining their silly 144000 doctrine rather than aknowledge and honour the martyrs. They disgrace their memory.

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