144000....DO THE NUMBERS ADD UP????? (page 2)

Honesty

Hello PMJ,

I suggest a reading of the material referenced by other posters in your own copy of the Watchtower Library on cd-rom and then if you have any integrity within you I further suggest that you read the first 3 chapters of Fox's Book of Martyrs . I believe you can find it at the library or on the internet. It is also widely available at many Christian Book Sellers (don't let the phrase 'Book Sellers' alarm you because you are an unpaid employee of a large one).

If you are really a person of integrity and read Fox's Book of Martyrs you will discover that, indeed during the first century A.D. many more than 144,000 gave their lives because they trusted Jesus as their God, Lord and Savior. My sincere hope is that you will see for yourself what the WTBT$ really represents in spite of their claims. Bob Evans Walland, TN

JosephMalik

just because there was faithul men and women through those 1900 years doesnt mean all of them were chosen to be part of the 144000

PMJ

Of course it does. Everyone that is baptized to become a Christian disciple of our Lord man or woman is part of the 144000. There is only one body in Christ not several versions of it. The many Christian denominations that exist today changes nothing. Collectively living or dead they are all by their dedication a part of the 144000. Now many such disciples perhaps even the majority of them are not faithful. In time such evil disciples will be weeded out of the faith but this does not happen until they are inspected by the Master when He returns. And this return is still in the future. Therefore no one living today knows who they are or how many will be chosen to be part of the symbolic 144,000 rulers with Christ. It is the responsibility of each disciple to be found faithful when such an inspection takes place.

Now this Watchtower invention of the anointed and other sheep has no support in scripture. They do not understand the texts, distorted the meaning of many and made themselves masters over your life to your detriment. If you choose to believe their lies you will be judged accordingly.

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

It is just as true today as it was then when Peter wrote this letter. Not every disciple would pass such inspection, not then and not now. And if they can convince you not to partake during the memorial then it does not take a rocket scientist to determine if you are faithful or evil in the sight of our Lord. After all you are disobeying His explicit instructions to you all. Your are rejecting Him publicly.

Matt. 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. 34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

Joseph

PMJ

ok just saying your right.what happens to people who dead before jesus?if every one after jesus dead goes to heaven.were does that leave the people who dead before?

Narkissos

One side remark:

The introduction of a "secondary hope" in 1935 was, time and again, presented as the gathering of the "great crowd" who would survive the "great tribulation," to provide the basis for the New World (then New system of things) society in the millenium (countless references available).

Well, that could make sense if the "great tribulation" was to occur shortly after 1935. But that was over 70 years ago. What percentage of the first "great crowd" candidates (let's say in the first decade from 1935) will actually survive the "great tribulation," even if it should occur this year (j/k)? As for the overwhelming majority of them who died in the meantime, what were they "called" for? How long do you think will this explanation be tenable?

AlmostAtheist

what happens to people who dead before jesus?if every one after jesus dead goes to heaven.were does that leave the people who dead before?

The Watchtower teaches that anyone that died before Jesus did cannot qualify for membership in the 144,000. They would receive life on earth.

The real problem isn't so much the 1900 years, the problem is the first 70. Acts records two baptisms that by themselves brought 8,000 people into the faith. That's just two days. Are we to believe that in the 70 years from Jesus' ministry ending to the alleged "great apostasy" beginning after John's death that fewer than 144,000 were baptized?

That's a big assumption to swallow, and it doesn't make sense.

Dave

JosephMalik

ok just saying your right. what happens to people who dead before jesus? if every one after jesus dead goes to heaven.were does that leave the people who dead before?

PMJ

This doctrine of going to heaven is just another Watchtower blunder and has no bearing on who make up such 144000. Everyone else regardless of when they lived or died will be judged by another set of rules when our Lord returns. That is the rule of the sheep and the goats. Decent human beings classed as sheep will be raised to life in the Kingdom to come. Goats will not. Everyone, our Lord, the 144000, such sheep will then exist here on earth until such sheep are tested and justified as the 144000 already have been.

Joseph

greendawn

Also in the book of Acts it says that in Israel there were myriads of believers, that Greek word myriads means tens of thousands. The NWT translates it as thousands, no doubt an intentional distortion with a view to protecting their 144000 doctrine.

Honesty

ok just saying your right.what happens to people who dead before jesus?if every one after jesus dead goes to heaven.were does that leave the people who dead before?

Think about this scripture and what happened when Jesus ascended to heaven.
Eph 4:7-8 Now grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of the Messiah ’s gift.

For it says: When He ascended on high, He took prisoners into captivity; He gave gifts to people Psalms 139:8 If I go up to heaven, You are there; if I make my bed in Sheol, You are there. 2 Kings 2:1 The time had come for the Lord to take Elijah up to heaven in a whirlwind. 2 Kings 2:11-12 As they continued walking and talking, a chariot of fire with horses of fire suddenly appeared and separated the two of them. Then Elijah went up into heaven in the whirlwind. As Elisha watched, he kept crying out, “My father, my father, the chariots and horsemen of Israel!” Then he never saw Elijah again.
P.S. You may say that there is no awareness in sheol but does God's Word confirm this? Psalms 31:17-18 Lord , do not let me be disgraced when I call on You. Let the wicked be disgraced; let them be silent in Sheol . Let lying lips be quieted; they speak arrogantly against the righteous with pride and contempt. Isaiah 14:9-10 Sheol below is eager to greet your coming.

He stirs up the spirits of the departed for you—

all the rulers of the earth.

He makes all the kings of the nations

rise from their thrones. T

hey all respond to you, saying:

“You too have become as weak as we are;

you have become like us!

Narkissos

Also in the book of Acts it says that in Israel there were myriads of believers, that Greek word myriads means tens of thousands. The NWT translates it as thousands, no doubt an intentional distortion with a view to protecting their 144000 doctrine.

Interesting, I didn't notice that. It's in 21:20:

You see, brother, how many muriades (tens of thousands) of believers there are among the Jews, and they are all zealous for the law.

And then it's only about Jewish believers...

TresHappy

Another stupid teaching of the WT!

144000....DO THE NUMBERS ADD UP?????

Share this