ok why havent we got the truth? (page 7)

sandy

TD, your post about the Revelation book... OH MY GOD!!!

How can I be sooo stupid to eat up all that nonesense!

If I didn't live it I would have a hard time believing people could fall for such crap.

Frannie Banannie

what im saying is people seem to leave for diffrent reasons.some leave because they say 1914 is wrong.some leave because of the UN thing.some leave because they say they dont agree with DS.some say its because there is no love.what im saying is to me this is just peoples personal reasons for leaving then they come on this site for anything else they can hang on to to prove the wittnesses wrong.if the wittnesses beleave 1914 is right then there not lieing to you thats what they beleave you have just made your personal chouise it isnt right

One thing, PMJ, that I do know can't be covered over or set aside, nor can this be disproved. The extreme lack of love. If you don't have love, you have nothing at all, not the truth, nor anything worth having. Reinforcing almost every post on this forum and underlining everything said is the extreme lack of love in the WTS. It's given lip service in the publications and sometimes from the platform, but the real deal is judgment. Judging their co-workers, family members, neighbors, friends and associates and other congregation members. They're all about judgment, not love.

Frannie

Sunspot

(Groan.....I know I'm gonna be sorry I got into this thread by PMJ)

i beleave the bible says abstain from blood.and if it said abstain from coke then i would not take coke.

Sooo.....you would then agree to accepting blood fractions cuz God changed his mind about "BLOOD"---right? (and these fractions are now allowed.)

You said that if you were told by the WTS, to abstain from coke, then would a sip be allowed?

greendawn

Many people here, ex JWs, noticed a gross lack of love in the congregations, in the local JW communities. This disproves the claim of the JWs that they are the real Christians because without love everything else is futile, whatever you do.

skyman

Here is a litle part of the Blood letter

Look at Leviticus 11:39-40 read “Now in case any beast that is YOURS for food should die, he who touches its dead body will be unclean until the evening. And he who eats any of its dead body will wash his garments, and he must be unclean until the evening; and he who carries off its dead body will wash his garments, and he must be unclean until the evening”

Lev. 17:15 read “As for any soul that eats a body [already] dead or something torn by a wild beast, whether a native or a alien resident, he must in that case wash his garments and bathe in water and be unclean until evening; and he must be clean.” Here God say’s even the NATIVE

could eat an animal that he personally did not kill and he knew that this animal had not been bled, and not be in violation of god’s law on blood. {A native, is a person that was clearly under the Mosaic Law and bound by it} How can this be? A Native, an Israelite eating un-bled meat?

Notice This is clearly stated in the Insight On the Scriptures Vol 1 pages 345, paragraph 6 “At Deuteronomy 14:21 allowances was made for selling to an alien resident or a foreigner an animal that had died of itself or that had been torn by a beast. Thus a distinction was made between the blood of such animals and that of animals that a person slaughtered for food. {Compare Le 17:14-16} The Israelites, as well as alien residents who took up true worship and came under the Law covenant, were obligated to live up to the lofty requirements of that Law. People of all nations were bound by the requirement at Gen 9:3,4 but those under the Law were held by God to a higher standard in adhering to that requirement than were foreigners and alien residents who had not became worshipers of Jehovah.” Notice those under the Law were held by God to a higher standard regards blood.

All the Law requirement was done away with Jesus death so blood can be used to sustain life clear as it get the insight book is so correct but why do they not believe waht they write in the Insight book? I do not know.

yesidid

Thank you for the opportunity to share a few thoughts with you.

For a start I would like to quote one of the society's publications

[Is This Life All There Is?, 1974, p. 46]

Knowing these things, what will you do? It is obvious that the true God, who is himself "the God of truth"

and who hates lies, will not look with favor on persons who cling to organizations that teach falsehood.

(Psalm 31:5; Proverbs 6:16-19; Revelation 21:8) And, really, would you want to be even associated with

a religion that had not been honest with you?

Has the Watchtower been honest?

Lets look at one example.

From the 1870's until at least 1929 the society believed and taught that Jesus had returned invisibly in 1874.
1917

From the book: ' The Finished Mystery' page386

"The Millennium (Rev. 20:3, 4, 7) began in 1874 , with the return of Christ."

1922
* The Watchtower, September 15, 1922, p. 278

No one can properly understand the work of God at this present time who does not realize that since 1874,

the time of the Lord’s return in power

, there has been a complete change in God’s operations.
1922
* The Watchtower, November 1, 1922, pp.332-337 DISCOURSE BY BROTHER J. F. RUTHERFORD delivered at
Cedar Point, Ohio, Friday September 8, 1922.-

... The power exercised by Jehovah upon his people is the holy spirit. The tie that binds Satan to his followers is the evil spirit.

Because of yielding to his machinations Israel was overreached by him. God pronounced a decree against the nation, and enforced

that decree in 606 B.C.; and there Satan became the god of this world. He is also called the prince of the power of the air,

thus indicating his organization visible and invisible.

Bible prophecy shows that the Lord was due to appear for the second time in the year 1874. Fulfilled prophecy
shows beyond a doubt that he did appear in 1874 .
1923

* The Watchtower, March 1, 1923, p. 67

The Scriptures show that his second presence was due in 1874…This proof shows that the Lord has been present since 1874 …"

1924

* The Watchtower, January 1, 1924, p. 5

Surely there is not the slightest room for doubt in the mind of a truly consecrated child of God that the

Lord Jesus is present and has been since

1874… "

1926

From the book : " Creation " published 1926, page 312

"To understand the events concerning the Lord's second presence

from 1874 to 1914

requires one to be spiritually minded..."

1928

F rom the book "The Harp of God", by J.F. Rutherford, published by the I.B.S.A.,

"(1928 edition). page 251 and

paragraph 430 :

"It would be reasonable to expect him to be present some time before he would take unto himself his great power to reign. His presence beginning in 1874,
he has carried on his harvest work from 1878 forward, but has not interrupted the

Gentile dominion until that dominion should end.

1929

* From the book " Prophecy ‘ published in the year 1929, pages 65, 66

The Scriptural proof is that the second presence of the Lord Jesus Christ began in

1874 AD.

This proof is specifically set out in the booklet entitled Our Lord's Return .

If you don't have access to the older publications I am sure you have the 'Proclaimers' book. Please check this out.

From the book ' Proclaimers…' published in 1993

*** jv 632 28 Testing and Sifting From Within ***

Based on the

premise that events of the first century might find parallels in related events later,

they also

concluded that if Jesus baptism and anointing in the autumn of 29 C.E. paralleled the

beginning of an

invisible presence in 1874, then his riding into Jerusalem as King in the

spring of 33 C.E. would point to

the spring of 1878 as the time when he would assume his

power as heavenly King.

They also thought they would be given their heavenly reward

at that time. When that did not occur, they

concluded that since Jesus anointed followers

were to share with him in the Kingdom, the resurrection to spirit life of those already

sleeping in death began then. It was also

reasoned that the end of Gods special favor to

natural Israel down to 36 C.E. might point to

1881 as the time when the special opportunity

to become part of

spiritual Israel would close.

What follows is a deliberate effort to deceive. Many of the quotes are deliberate LIES
where they rewrite their own history to give the impression that it was always believed
and taught that Christ would/did return in 1914. As examples:
1952, 1953, 1954, 1958, 1963, 1965, 1966, 1975, 1977, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1991, 1993, 1998, 2004, 2005
***
w1952 11/1 p. 658 A Better Basis for Belief ***

16 As for the time of
Christ’s second presence, Daniel’s prophecy is again the one that gives the chronology for it. (Dan. 4:16)
It was figured out as
pointing to A.D. 1914, and
The Watchtower called notice to the
significance of 1914 in the year 1879.
.

The April 1, 1953 issue of The Watchtower on page 215 said:

"It was therefore not a mere occurrence when devoted men and women began to be

gathered out of faithless Christendom from and after the year 1870. God purposed

to use them as an organization to do a twofold work. First, they

must proclaim that the

Gentile times that began in 607 B. C. were due to come to an end A. D. 1914, at which

time Jehovah would take to himself his official power and begin to reign in the heavens

by his anointed King. So for some thirty-seven years prior to 1914 this proclamation

was sounded

."

Quote from the year

1954:

*** w54 6/15 p. 370 The Revelation of Jesus Christ ***

4

"Why, then, do the nations not realize and accept the approach of this climax of judgment?

It is because they have not heeded the world-wide advertising of

Christ's return
and his second presence.
Since long before World War I Jehovah's witnesses
pointed to 1914
as the time for this great event to occur . And since 1914 physical evidences
establishing this trut
h have been pointed to repeatedly in the columns of The Watchtower. "

The

1958 publication From Paradise Lost To Paradise Regained said on page 170:

"In the "Watchtower" magazine of March 1880, they said: "The Times of the Gentiles extend to 1914,

and the heavenly kingdom will not have full sway till then."

Of all people, only the
witnesses pointed to 1914 as the year for God's kingdom to be fully set up in heaven
."

The

1963 publication Babylon The Great Has Fallen! God's Kingdom Rules! said on page 515:

"The historical facts show that

1919 was the year when the remnant on earth of the 144,000 Kingdom

heirs began to be freed from Great Babylon.

In that year the message of God's established
kingdom began to be preached from house to house and publicly by Jehovah's Christian
witnesses in a fearless way
. This preaching of the Kingdom as established in 1914 was in

fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy in Matthew 24:14: "This good news of the kingdom will be preached

in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations

."

* Quote from the year

1965:
--The Watchtower ' ,
July 15th, 1965 page 428

"Jehovah's Advancing Organization"

As we look back over the years, we can clearly see how God's organization in modern times has progressed in

understanding. For example, it learned that Christ's second presence was to be in the spirit, and not in the flesh

as many professed Christians believe. His rule would be from the heavens. This was a new revelation of great

importance to God's people who had been

anxiously awaiting his second presence toward the end of the
nineteenth century.

·

Quote from the year 1966:

*** w66 2/15 p. 103 Christ’s Return—Do You Know What to Look For? ***

Compare this with what has taken place since the year 1914.

For over thirty years before that date and for half a century since, Jehovah’s witnesses

have pointed

to the year 1914 as the time for the end of "the appointed times of the nations" and the time in which Christ
would begin his Kingdom rule. (Luke 21:24)

The

1975 Yearbook page 37 said:

"Even earlier, however, C. T. Russell wrote an article entitled "Gentile Times: When Do They End?"

It was published in the Bible Examiner of October 1876, and therein

Russell said: "The seven
times will end in AD 1914."
He had correctly linked the Gentile Times with the "seven times"

mentioned in the book of Daniel. (Dan. 4:16, 23, 25, 32)

True to such calculations, 1914 did
mark the end of those times and the birth of God's kingdom in heaven with Christ Jesus as
king. Just think of it! Jehovah granted his people that knowledge nearly four decades
before those times expired."

The

1977 Yearbook on page 203 said:

" Some whose expectations for 1914 were too great were disappointed and left the truth. But, for the most

part, the brothers remained faithful. Today we know that

they were right in believing that the Gentile

Times of 2,520 years would run out about October 1, 1914. The Messianic kingdom then

started to rule in heaven. One of the greatest events in human history had occurred,

and the brothers had been privileged to share in announcing it!"

***
w 1984 12/1 pp. 13-14 Happy Are Those Found Watching! ***

19 Among the so-called heretical groups who were watching for the sign of Christ’s return in the
latter third of the 19th century was a Bible-study class presided over by Charles Russell in Pittsburgh,
United States. Russell wrote: "From 1870 to 1875 was a time of constant growth in grace and knowledge
and love of God and his Word. . . . However, we were then merely getting the general outline of God’s
plan, and unlearning many long-cherished errors. . . . We felt greatly grieved at the error of
Second Adventists, who were expecting Christ in the flesh."

20 Russell and his associates quickly understood that Christ’s presence would be invisible. They

disassociated themselves from other groups and, in 1879, began publishing spiritual food in Zion’s

Watch Tower and Herald of Christ’s Presence. From its first year of publication, this magazine

pointed forward, by sound Scriptural reckoning, to the date 1914 as an epoch-making date in

Bible chronology.

So when Christ’s invisible presence began in 1914, happy were these Christians

to have been found watching!

The

1985 publication Life -- How did it get here? By Evolution or by Creation?

on pages 227-229 said:

"The Bible also provided chronological evidence that

1914 would mark the birth of

God's heavenly Kingdom

, to be followed by unprecedented world trouble. But was

anyone living back then aware that 1914 would be such a turning point in history?

Decades

before that date, there was an organization of people who were making known the significance of 1914

."

The

1986 publication Jehovah's Witnesses Unitedly Doing God's Will Worldwide said on page 8:

"Russell and his associates also

saw that Christ's presence was to be invisible, in spirit. The

Gentile Times, during which period God's sovereignty was not being expressed through any

government on the earth, were to end in 1914.

Then God's Kingdom would be established
in heaven. These teachings are identified with Jehovah's Witnesses today. Russell and
his companions announced these truths far and wide by talks and printed page."

The greatest Man who ever lived

. 1991

***

gt chap. 132 At God’s Right Hand ***

A careful study of Bible prophecies, including Jesus’ own prophecy regarding the last days,

reveals that "the Lord’s day" began in the history-making year 1914, yes, within this generation!

So it was in 1914 that Jesus returned invisibly, without public fanfare and with only his
faithful servants being aware of his return. In that year Jehovah gave Jesus the command to

go subduing in the midst of his enemies.

The March 22, 1993 issue of Awake! said on page 10:

"If you are inclined to dismiss all of this as pie in the sky, too good to be true, pause again and reflect.

In addition to the features of the composite sign of Christ Jesus' presence, there is Bible chronology

that pointed to 1914 as the beginning of his presence. Jehovah's Witnesses published the date

1914 as a significant year in the development of Jehovah's Kingdom rule of the earth, doing so

in the Watch Tower magazine of July 1879. Many historians and observers of world affairs

have noted that the year 1914 ushered in an entirely different and significant period. "

Quote from the year 1998:

*** w98 9/15 p. 15 Waiting in "Eager Expectation"

"The eager expectation of the creation is waiting for the revealing of the sons of God."

THE situation of true Christians today resembles that of the first-century Christians.

A prophecy helped Jehovah’s servants of those days to identify when the Messiah was

due to appear. (Daniel 9:24-26)

The same prophecy foretold Jerusalem’s destruction but contained no elements enabling

Christians to know in advance when that city would be destroyed. (Daniel 9:26b, 27)

Similarly, a prophecy providentially caused sincere 19th-century Bible students
to be in expectation. By linking the "seven times" of Daniel 4:25 with "the times of the Gentiles,"
they anticipated that Christ would receive Kingdom power in 1914.

Then i n the Watchtower March 1 2004 page 14 paragraph 6

"After speaking of "that evil slave," Jesus gave two parables to show why some anointed

Christians would prove to be faithful and discreet while others would not. To illustrate discretion,

he said: The kingdom of the heavens will become like ten virgins that took their lamps and went

out to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish, and five were discreet. For the foolish

took their lamps but took no oil with them, whereas the discreet took oil in their receptacles with

their lamps." (Matthew 25:1-4). The ten virgins remind us of anointed Christians before 1914.

They had calculated that the bridegroom, Jesus Christ, was about to make an appearance .

Hence, they "went out" to meet him, boldly preaching that "the appointed times of the nations" would end in

1914. Luke 21:24."

"What does the Bible Really Teach" 2005

Starting on page 84:

22 When Jesus told his followers to pray, "Let your Kingdom come" it was clear that the Kingdom had not

come at that time…….There was a waiting period………….23 For how long ? During the 19th century,

sincere Bible students calculated that the waiting period would end in 1914…… .World events

that began in 1914 confirm that the calculation of these sincere Bible students was correct. The fulfillment

of Bible prophecy shows that in 1914, Christ became King and God’s heavenly Kingdom began to rule.

Could this have been examples of brothers in the writing department who knew no

better? Yes it could, but in the article below the governing body takes full responsibility

for everything the Society prints.

*** w87 3/1 14-15 'Upon the Watchtower I Am Standing' ***

16 How would The Watchtower maintain the purity of its printed message? The magazine’s first editor, C. T. Russell,

instituted safeguards to make certain that what was printed in The Watchtower was the truth as then understood.

One of those safeguards is identified in his will made on June 27, 1907. (Russell died on October 31, 1916.) His will states:

"I direct that the entire editorial charge of ZION’S WATCH TOWER shall be in the hands of a committee of five brethren,

whom I exhort to great carefulness and fidelity to the truth. All articles appearing in the columns of ZION’S WATCH TOWER

shall have the unqualified approval of at least three of the committee of five, and I urge that if any matter approved by the

three be known or supposed to be contrary to the views of one or both of the other members of the committee, such articles

shall be held over for thought, prayer and discussion for three months before being published—that so far as possible the

unity of the faith and the bonds of peace may be maintained in the editorial management of the journal."

17 Each member of the Editorial Committee, according to Russell’s will, had to be "thoroughly loyal to the doctrines of the

Scriptures" and had to exhibit, as prominent characteristics, "purity of life, clearness in the truth, zeal for God, love for the

brethren and faithfulness to the Redeemer." Also, Russell stipulated that "it shall not in any manner be indicated by whom

the various articles appearing in the journal are written . . . that the truth may be recognized and appreciated for its own worth,

and that the Lord may more particularly be recognized as the Head of the church and the Fountain of truth."

18 To this day the Governing Body follows similar guidelines.

Each article in both The Watchtower and Awake! and every page, including the artwork, is

scrutinized by selected members of the Governing Body before it is printed.

Furthermore, those who assist in writing articles for The Watchtower are Christian elders

who appreciate the seriousness of their assignment. (Compare 2 Chronicles 19:7.)

They spend many hours in researching the Bible and other reference material
to make sure that what is written is the truth and that it faithfully follows the
Scriptures. (Ecclesiastes 12:9, 10; 2 Timothy 1:13)

It is not unusual for one magazine article—that you may read in 15 minutes—to take from

two weeks to over a month to prepare.

9 Therefore, you can read The Watchtower and Awake! with confidence.

and

*** w95 5/15 22-3 Flashes of Light-Great and Small (Part 2) ***

For many years the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses was synonymous with the board of directors
of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania, and matters were largely in the hands
of its president.

As shown in the 1977 Yearbook of Jehovah’s Witnesses (pages 258-9), in 1976 the Governing Body
began to function with six committees, each assigned to care for certain aspects of the worldwide work.

The Personnel Committee deals with personnel matters, including the interests of all who serve

in the worldwide Bethel family. The Publishing Committee handles all secular and legal matters,

such as property and printing. The Service Committee concerns itself with the witness work

and supervises traveling overseers, pioneers, and the activities of congregation publishers.

The Teaching Committee is responsible for congregation meetings, special assembly days,

circuit assemblies, and district and international conventions as well as the various schools

for the spiritual education of God’s people. The Writing Committee supervises

the preparation and translation of publications in all forms,

making sure that everything is in line with the Scriptures.

As it has been shown very clearly that the organization practices lying and deception and is

thereforecertainly not honest, are you going to take their advice:
[Is This Life All There Is?, 1974, p. 46]

Knowing these things, what will you do? It is obvious that the true God, who is himself "the God of truth"

and who hates lies, will not look with favor on persons who cling to organizations that teach falsehood.

(Psalm 31:5; Proverbs 6:16-19; Revelation 21:8) And, really, would you want to be even associated with

a religion that had not been honest with you?

yesidid

knothead34

pmj,

the main reason that I can't follow the WTS is because I don't like a group of people telling me what, when, where, and how I should worship Jehovah when that group of people are and have been wrong so many times. They have way too much control! furthermore, they think they can determine my spirituality by how many meetings I go to, how many conventions I go to and how many magazines I place. You see, they like to pull things from the bible to support their making people attend 5 meetings a week, even if that number is NOWHERE in the bible. What really stuck in my gut was when a brother gave a talk and said: "Jehovah has said that we need 5 meetings a week". That was an outright lie and I can never forget it.

blondie

Great quotes, yesidid. I think I mentioned that one of the things that got me thinking was when the WT printed they had consistently taught that Jesus was present starting in 1914. Huh...I thought, didn't they teach that he was present in 1874? That got me using the new WT-CD.

***

w93 1/15 p. 5 ‘Caught Away to Meet the Lord’—How? ***

When a foreign head of State visits a country, the dates of his presence there are generally announced. This has been true of the presence of the Lord Jesus Christ. The Watchtower has consistently presented evidence to honesthearted students of Bible prophecy that Jesus’ presence in heavenly Kingdom power began in 1914. Events since that year testify to Jesus’ invisible presence. (Matthew 24:3-14)

Your quotes show how the WTS has consistently lied and deceived their members.

Blondie

yesidid

Thank you Blondie. I wish I could claim all the credit. Much was cut and paste from MacHislop.

He is such a great researcher and presenter, (like you). Everyone should read his posts.

BTW I wonder where he is?

Come back MacHislop we miss you.

yesidid

jgnat

I never joined. I investigated, and turned it down. I guess a key problem for me is that the Jehovah's Witnesses teach a different Good News than the first disciples. I'll put you on a dare, pmj. In twenty words or less, describe the Good News that the Jehovah's Witnesses preach.

ok why havent we got the truth?

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