a look to Isaiah.

mdb

“Thus says the Lord [yhwh], the King of Israel,
And his Redeemer, the Lord [yhwh] of hosts:
'I am the First and I am the Last;
Besides Me there is no God.

Isaiah 44:6

How many persons are speaking in Isaiah 44:6? 2 distinct persons: yhwh, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, yhwh of hosts.

Jesus is his Redeemer:
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3:13,14

Jesus is the First and the Last:
And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead. But He laid His right hand on me, saying to me, “Do not be afraid; I am the First and the Last. I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore. Amen. And I have the keys of Hades and of Death.
Rev 1:17,18

In Isaiah 44:6, the Lord and the Lord both say, ‘I am the First and I am the Last; Besides Me there is no God.’
Jesus Christ is yhwh, Jehovah.

peacefulpete

the 'his' refers to Israel. compare a few translations to see how they render the passage. Here is the American Standard.:

6 "This is what the LORD says—
Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty:
I am the first and I am the last;
apart from me there is no God.

To impose a dualist or trinitarian theology on this text is simply unwarrented and anachronistic.

Shazard

Better is Genesis 19:24, where in one verse 2 persons are called "YHWH", to prove it, check context

peacefulpete

An interesting approach to the odd grammar of Gen 24:

Sodom and 'El

mdb

peachfulpete,

Look at the original text, not the "translations" (you'll have to excuse the ?? symbols. I can't seem to get the correct font for the below text to display correctly).

Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts; I the first, and I the last; and beside me no God

?amar yhwh melek yis??ra?e¯l g??ûlîm yhwh s?aba? ri?s?own ri?s?own ?ah?a?rown ?ah?a?rown bal?a?dê ?e?lohîm ?e?lohîm

Determine for yourself which is right. I believe in the above rendering since it also aligns with other Scriptures (as I mentioned in my original post).

mdb

simply unwarrented and anachronistic

One other comment,

Indicating the fact that the Son was existent in the OT, is not anachronistic. Even a JW will admit that the Son was "created first" (though He was not created, but always has been). His appearing in the OT is well within historical, or chronological order.

For those who believe Jesus Christ is a created being, if this is so, then I suppose there was a time when The Father was not the Father being that He was without a Son.

peacefulpete

mdb take a look at vs 24 where similar construction is found. Think about it for a while. Surely you would not encourage others with different theological inclinations to read into the sometimes awkward (ie.foreign) grammar of Hebrew and extrapolate doctrines not otherwise implied or expressed.

Narkissos

Fwiw, here's the list of the occurrences of the keyword go'el, "redeemer," in (2nd and 3rd) Isaiah: 41:14; 43:14; 44:6,24; 47:4; 48:17; 49:7,26; 54:5,8; 59:20; 60:16; 63:16.

Compare them, see how they work in a list of 2, 3, 4 alternate titles for Yhwh...

Now if you still feel like reading the Trinity or whatever into it, that's up to you.

mdb

mdb take a look at vs 24.

Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, And He who formed you from the womb: “I am the Lord, who makes all things, Who stretches out the heavens all alone, Who spreads abroad the earth by Myself;
Isaiah 44:24

God is the Redeemer: Isaiah 44:24; 48:17; 49:26; 63:16The Lord also says in Isaiah 44:24 that it is He who makes all things.

Jesus also made all things: Jn 1:3,14; Rom 11:36; 1 Cor 8:6; Col 1:15-17; Heb 1:8-10 (Ps 102:24-27); 2:10; Rev 4:11

I said, “O my God, Do not take me away in the midst of my days; Your years are throughout all generations. Of old You laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You will endure; Yes, they will all grow old like a garment; Like a cloak You will change them, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will have no end.
Psalm 102:24-27

But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:
“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, And the heavens are the work of Your hands. They will perish, but You remain; And they will all grow old like a garment; Like a cloak You will fold them up, And they will be changed. But You are the same, And Your years will not fail.”
Heb 1:8-12

You fail to see the OT reference to the Messiah. Or is it that you choose not to see it (whether it be in the book of Isaiah or some other context)? I would presume that you do not believe that Jesus Christ is yhwh and will try to explain any reference to His being yhwh away in order that your beliefs would not be proved wrong. Believe and be saved.

peacefulpete

I suggested you look at the grammar of vs 24 and notice the similar construction. The "and" (vs 6 "and his redeemer" vs 24 "and your former") does not imply 2 persons but a second title. Note how the NIV words it: 24 Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer,who formed you from the womb: But as Narkissos said, knock yourself out.

a look to Isaiah.

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