As Christianity is based on Jesus' fulfilment of 'Old Testament' Messianic prophecies, does anyone know of any CONVINCING Scriptural evidence that he did?
Is Jesus the Messiah?
by scout575 21 Replies latest jw friends
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Narkissos
Welcome.
As Christianity is based on Jesus' fulfilment of 'Old Testament' Messianic prophecies
Is it?
Isn't there more to Christianity than the alleged "fulfillment of prophecies"?
Btw, which OT texts do you think qualify as "Messianic prophecies"?
does anyone know of any CONVINCING Scriptural evidence that he did?
I don't.
Why do you ask?
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serendipity
HI scout, welcome to the forum!
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scout575
I agree that there is more to Christianity than the fulfilment of Messianic Prophecies, but NT writers go to great pains to 'prove' that Jesus fulfilled them. If first century Christians hadn't have believed that he did fulfil those prophecies they wouldn't have accepted him as the Christ and so Christianity wouldn't have got started ( Acts 10:43 ).
The Messianic prophecies that I refer to are the ones that NT writers quote and apply to Jesus. For instance: Matthew chapter 2:6,15,18. Maybe some of the people on this site who still believe that the Bible is inspired of God would like to examine those texts and see whether they are good evidence that Jesus is the Messiah?
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scout575
Hi Serendipity,
Thanks for the welcome. I knew that my question would be of little interest to most ex-JWs on this site, but I've noticed there are some people here who still believe that the Bible is from God ( which I don't ). Maybe one of them will reply to my question? Take care, be happy.
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greendawn
There are some ex JWs here that believe in the Bible but you need someone who is well informed on the arguments of the issue, to debate with you. The gospels do link prophecies from the old testament to Jesus to show that he is the messiah.
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gaiagirl
There were many who were believed to be the Messiah before and after the time of Jesus, and every single one of them had their own group of followers. The reason Christianity ultimately succeeded was because a Roman emperor whose mother was a Christian made Christianity the official state religon in the 4th century. A very good show which deals with this was on PBS, entitled "The First Christians". It should be available on video from the PBS/Nova website.
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Leolaia
The Messianic prophecies that I refer to are the ones that NT writers quote and apply to Jesus. For instance: Matthew chapter 2:6,15,18. Maybe some of the people on this site who still believe that the Bible is inspired of God would like to examine those texts and see whether they are good evidence that Jesus is the Messiah?
Matthew 2:18 quotes from Jeremiah 31:15. When you read the latter in its context, does it have anything to do with Jesus or a killing of children by King Herod? Does this verse present itself as a prophecy at all? Really, just read it in its context.
4 I will build you up again
and you will be rebuilt, O Virgin Israel.
Again you will take up your tambourines
and go out to dance with the joyful.5 Again you will plant vineyards
on the hills of Samaria;
the farmers will plant them
and enjoy their fruit.6 There will be a day when watchmen cry out
on the hills of Ephraim,
'Come, let us go up to Zion,
to Yahweh our God.' "7 This is what Yahweh says:
"Sing with joy for Jacob;
shout for the foremost of the nations.
Make your praises heard, and say,
'O Yahweh, save your people,
the remnant of Israel.'8 See, I will bring them from the land of the north
and gather them from the ends of the earth.
Among them will be the blind and the lame,
expectant mothers and women in labor;
a great throng will return.9 They will come with weeping;
they will pray as I bring them back.
I will lead them beside streams of water
on a level path where they will not stumble,
because I am Israel's father,
and Ephraim is my firstborn son.10 "Hear the word of Yahweh, O nations;
proclaim it in distant coastlands:
'He who scattered Israel will gather them
and will watch over his flock like a shepherd.'11 For Yahweh will ransom Jacob
and redeem them from the hand of those stronger than they.12 They will come and shout for joy on the heights of Zion;
they will rejoice in the bounty of Yahweh—
the grain, the new wine and the oil,
the young of the flocks and herds.
They will be like a well-watered garden,
and they will sorrow no more.13 Then maidens will dance and be glad,
young men and old as well.
I will turn their mourning into gladness;
I will give them comfort and joy instead of sorrow.14 I will satisfy the priests with abundance,
and my people will be filled with my bounty,"
declares Yahweh.15 This is what Yahweh says:
"A voice is heard in Ramah,
mourning and great weeping,
Rachel weeping for her children
and refusing to be comforted,
because her children are no more."16 This is what Yahweh says:
"Restrain your voice from weeping
and your eyes from tears,
for your work will be rewarded,"
declares Yahweh.
"They will return from the land of the enemy.17 So there is hope for your future,"
declares Yahweh.
"Your children will return to their own land.18 "I have surely heard Ephraim's moaning:
'You disciplined me like an unruly calf,
and I have been disciplined.
Restore me, and I will return,
because you are the Yahweh my God.This whole passage is about the exile of the Jews in the "land of the enemy" and how God will restore them back to Zion. Note that v. 15, the passage quoted by Matthew, does not refer to a distant time in the future but to the present, about how the land has been emptied. But God gives a prophecy that "there is hope for your future" (v. 17) because "your children will return to their land." The idea is not at all that someone had come and wiped out the children and the children are all dead. Plainly, the children are "no more" not because of death but because they were taken away! The promise is that "your children will return to their own land."
Rather than being evidence of a messianic prophecy from the OT, this verse is an excellent example of what the OT "prophecies" really are..... simply passages taken out of context by the gospel writers and employed by them to compose the story of Jesus. No one reading Jeremiah 31 by himself/herself would ever think it had anything to do with a coming Messiah and the killing of children by the king if Matthew had not already made that link.
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Leolaia
JD Crossan's The Cross Gospel gives a blow-by-blow account of how the Passion narrative in the gospels was composed by creatively integrating material from the OT, from a wide variety of sources (even laws in the Pentateuch), and usually in the Greek translation, which varies from the original Hebrew (i.e. sometimes the NT writer is inspired by changes in the Greek and not the original Hebrew text itself).
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