Anyone want to try an experiment?

by Lady Lee 76 Replies latest jw friends

  • Nosferatu
    Nosferatu

    My regular message board is closed at the moment, so I did a google search on cached pages. So, this is just a "worldly" view on JWs. The third one is one helluva good laugh!
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    MEMBOT: A person whose entire life has become subordinated to the propagation of a meme, robotically and at any opportunity. (Such as many Jehovah's Witnesses, Krishnas, and Scientologists.) Due to internal competition, the most vocal and extreme membots tend to rise to top of their sociotype's hierarchy. A self-destructive membot is a memeoid. (GMG)

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    I agree with most of what you're saying with some excetions, Mormons (latter day saints), Jehovah witnesses, and Christan scientists, etc... they say they are Christian but hold very different beliefs..

    ==========================================

    I field-tested the Bratty Little Sister frame yesterday. Here’s how it went:
    I was sitting in the subway car, and I had my feet up on the seat in front
    of me. This woman comes in and gives me a dirty look, so I take my feet
    off the bench, give her a smile and raise my eyebrows twice. I was
    conveying a, ‘so you like bad boys, huh?' type of body language.

    As she sat down, she started giving me shit and saying how people shouldn't
    put their feet up on the benches, because it’s rude.

    ME I was just keeping it warm for you, Sweetheart.
    HER (surprised at my comment, smiling) Well, I don't mean to be rude, it’s
    just that...
    ME (Interrupting) It’s OK, I admire any woman who can stand up for
    herself…it’s a very rare and attractive quality.
    HER Are you always like this??
    ME I try
    HER You’re so…(looking for the right words)
    ME You started off giving me shit, and now you’re falling in love with me.
    I just want to warn you, I'm a very bad boy.
    HER HOW do you do it??
    ME Do what?
    HER Does ANYTHING bother you?
    ME yes
    HER Like what?
    ME YOU bother me (wink)
    HER (laughing) Don't ever change, young man!
    ME So now I'm a ‘young man’? Does that make you an old BAG (wink) or what?
    HER (laughing) You’re terrible!
    ME Terribly attractive. It’s a standard compliment, thank you.
    HER (laughing)
    ME I'm a lot older than you think, btw
    HER How old are you?
    ME How RUDE! How old are you?
    HER I'm 36
    ME I disagree. You are not 36. Your BODY is 36. I figure I'm about 600
    000 years old, give or take a couple thousand…
    HER Ahh, you believe in re-incarnation
    ME It’s not something I believe, it’s something I've always KNOWN. There’s
    a difference.
    HER Really? But when you come back, you might be a snail or something!
    ME Well, right now, I'm a snake. But I'm thinking of coming back as YOU.
    HER ME?! Why me (laughing)?
    ME There are a few lessons I need to learn from you.
    HER Yeah, like what?
    ME My intuition tells me that you’re very adventurous

    Here, I was trying to set her up to sleep with me, but it backfired. She
    responded that she isn't adventurous, and that she annoys a lot of people.
    Why? Because she is a Jehovah’s Witness! She started in on me with her
    fucking religion so I said, “Lemme ask you a question before I go” She
    said OK. I asked her, “If you had truly found Heaven on Earth, if you were
    truly fulfilled, then you wouldn't harass people with those damn comic
    books all day. Enjoy getting rejected for a living.”

  • misspeaches
    misspeaches

    here's another one...

    Most people consider them to be on the same "like" level as telemarketers.

    They are generally very nice people... but also look down upon people that are less than their skewed vision of moral perfection.

    Just remember, all Religions have somes fanatics.... but JW's are all fanatic.
  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    I just got this one. It is from the same site where the board owner hunted down the info on me

    I was raised as a Jehovah’s Witness and remained one until age 11. Coming out of this cult, I entered my teenage years as a bitter atheist where I remained until I graduated from college. Through God’s amazing grace I was saved in 1994 after reading the Bible and realizing that it was indeed the true Word of God. Repeatedly God has blessed me with the passion and privilege to witness to the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    You’ve almost certainly had them come knocking on your door on a Saturday afternoon and you may have even engaged a Jehovah’s Witness in a theological discussion. In talking to other Christians I find that when presented with a face-to-face encounter with a Jehovah’s Witness there are usually two responses: 1) A "frontal assault" via debate or heated discussion; or 2) A polite "no thanks, I’m already a Christian" followed by an all too abrupt closing of the door. For the mature Christian, what’s usually missing is the realization that this is a true witnessing opportunity—one that has arrived right at your doorstep. In my earliest attempts at grabbing the proverbial bull by the horns, I tried engaging them in direct debates, often quoting from several texts I had studied regarding the cultic practices of the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    After several failed "conversion" attempts, often ending with thoroughly frustrated Jehovah’s Witnesses unwilling to ever return to my residence, I arrived at a startling realization: Jehovah’s Witnesses are real people, with real needs and real feelings. They can feel frustration, anger, fear, and confusion. I then realized that the reason my frontal assaults on the Jehovah’s Witnesses never seemed to work was because I had not put myself in their place and taken their feelings into account. A wise man once said, "When you want to get someone’s attention, you don’t shine a flashlight in their eyes." In presenting my arguments and facts without giving them time to prepare, I had forgotten that they were human beings searching for the truth. I had not been speaking this truth in love.

    Months later, when I was again presented with an opportunity to speak with Jehovah’s Witnesses at my door, I engaged them in conversation, and agreed to do a weekly Bible study with them in order to further discuss what exactly they believed. They agreed, with the understanding that along the way I would ask questions whenever we arrived at a topic or subject with which I disagreed or failed to understand. The amazing difference was that instead of blindsiding them with questions and points of contention, I was giving them an opportunity to prepare themselves for a topic of discussion. More importantly, though, I began to care about them personally and yearn for their salvation. In this way, I am able to meet with Witnesses on a weekly basis and take them off the streets, focusing on critical topics such as the requirement that one be born again to enter the kingdom of God, the unbiblical theology of a two-class system of believers, and the true identity of Jesus Christ.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    Got another one. She sent this to me alone so the other posters did not see it.

    I prefer to leave this in author only because I am not willing to debate my opinion about this. I do not not know much about JW's, but I do have something to say about the way so many people treat them. I've heard so many people make judgements and criticize their beliefs when they don't even know the religion. It is just plain ignorant. It especially upsets me when I hear of people slamming doors in the faces of JW's and Mormons. These people are coming to your door to offer you what they believe to be true happiness and salvation, and people get so choked up about it. It's funny, because you don't hear about people slamming the door on salesman nearly as much as religious missionaries. It is so sad. I always treat the missionaries with the utmost respect and dignity. I think that what they are doing is for a great cause and they only have the best of intentions for us. I know that I would probably never be brave enough to go door to door educating people about my beliefs, especially knowing how awful some people are to them. There is no reason to be rude to them or make them feel unwelcome.


    Then I went back top the other board where they looked me up. OH Lordy. The man went nuts. I don't know where he got all the links but he must have posted 50-75 links about the JWs and the sexual abuse issue.

    Rick Ross is doing an excellent job exposing sexual abuse of children in the Jehovah Witness cult.

    http://www.rickross.com/groups/witness.html

    http://www.rickross.com/reference/jw/jw132.html

    http://www.rickross.com/reference/jw/jw205.html

    http://www.religioustolerance.org/witness7.htm

    Some examples of continued abuse:

    The WTS' policy of handling some suspected sexual abuse cases in secret has aroused a growing level of opposition inside and outside of the Jehovah's Witnesses. The main concern is that there is a very high probability that the abuse will continue. This is reduced by intensive counseling, but is never eliminated. There is a general consensus among mental health professionals that pedophilia and or hebephilia (the sexual attraction to children) is unchangeable, much in the same way that one's sexual orientation is fixed. What may be changed is the perpetrator's actions. They can sometimes control their feelings and not act upon them. The average abusive pedophile or hebephile who is arrested has molested dozens of children. Counseling by WTS elders may or may not break this pattern of abuse, and may leave children vulnerable to molestation in the future.

    Some instances that have resulted in court cases include:

    • New Hampshire: A WTS member informed elders that her husband was physically abusing their children. They took no action. For years afterwards, the man sexually and physically abused children in his own family. He was finally caught, tried and given a 56 year prison sentence.

    • Texas: In 1992, WTS elders ordered a teen-age boy to stop molesting his younger sister. The youth later sexually abused another sister. Police found out about the latter case when alerted by hospital staff after his victim attempted to commit suicide. In 1997, the perpetrator was given a 40-year prison term.

    • Maine: WTS elders disciplined a member for child molesting. Later, the perpetrator molested a teen-age boy between 1989 and 1992. It was only after the second victim disclosed the abuse to a therapist that authorities were notified.

    http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/childabuse.htm

    Jehovah's Witnesses & (sexual) child abuse

    Jehovah's Witness climbed into bed with son of fellow church goers A sexual frustrated Jehovah's Witness carried out a sex attack on an 11-year-old schoolboy because he couldn’t find a girlfriend and was looking for a substitute. (added 03/13/2004)

    Man faces theme park child rape charges A devout Jehovah's Witness and family man raped two children and assaulted five others in a theme park in Australia (added 03/12/2004)

    Jehovah's Witnesses hit with abuse suits -Alleged victims were molested as children, they say Eight former members of the Jehovah's Witnesses have filed lawsuits in three Northern California counties alleging that they were sexually molested as children and that their church covered up the crimes. (added 07/31/2003)

    Jehovah's Witnesses asking woman to pay legal costs in sexual abuse lawsuit A judge awarded Vicki Boer $5,000 in June. She claimed in a civil suit that elders told her not to seek outside help or report the alleged abuse. No criminal charges were laid in the assault allegations. Now she is being asked by the lawyer of the Watchtower Society to pay part of the religious group's $160,000 in legal costs in the case. (added 07/24/2003)

    Amarillo woman accuses Jehovah's Witness' elder of sexual abuse A woman in Texas has sued the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and the congregations in Dumas and Amarillo, claiming an elder sexually abused her while the organization's officials took no action to halt it. (added 06/06/2003)

    Another Church Sex Scandal William Bowen, Attorney Jeff Anderson and plaintiff Heidi Meyer announce a civil lawsuit filed against the Jehovah's Witness headquarters. (added 04/30/2003)

    Suit charges church coverup -Jehovah's Witness group is blamed in abuse of girl A 14-year-old Dorchester girl and her parents are suing the Jehovah's Witnesses, arguing that the religious group covered up the girl's sexual abuse by a Bible study leader and discouraged her parents from reporting the abuse to police or prosecutors. (added 0101/2003)

    Worldwide Class Action Suit against the Watchtower Society A consortium of attorneys are planning Mass Class Action Suits against the Watchtower Society for victims of sexual abuse and wrongful death. (added 10/11/2002)

    Transcript of Australian Channel 9 Sunday Program "Silent Witnesses" The Catholic and Anglican churches in Australia are already engulfed in the scandal of child abuse. Sunday has managed to get inside the Jehovah's Witnesses, and found the WTS has secretly pursued a policy of obstructing police investigations into child abusers. (added 09/22/2002)

    Transcript of CNN Connie Chung Tonight Program "Witnesses abused? Church accused of failing children" An interview with sexual abuse victims Heidi Meyer & Amber Long and former elder Bill Bowen by Connie Chung (added 08/20/2002)

    New York Times article on Sexual Abuse: Ousted Members Contend Jehovah's Witnesses' Abuse Policy Hides Offenses (added 08/11/2002)

    BOOK REVIEW Father's Touch -A Book Written by a Jehovah's Witness Incest Victim Sexual abuse victim Donald D'Haene and his siblings refused to remain silent about the horrors of sexual abuse. D'Haene has written a memoir of his abusive experience that will be of great benefit to sexually abused victims, rape survivors and educators. Father's Touch details his father's physical and sexual abuse of his siblings, his mother, and himself; his experience with faith, educators, sexual orientation, therapy, and a trial. (added 08/10/2002)

    Bill Bowen's Appeal Letter
    Bill Bowen has appealed to the decision to Disfellowship him for speaking out on sexual abuse among Jehovah's Witnesses. (added 07/30/2002)

    Former elder excommunicated for speaking out on sexual abuse
    Bill Bowen, former elder and anti- sexual abuse activist, has been Disfellowshipped by the Watchtower Society for criticizing the handling of child sexual abuse cases. (added 07/26/2002)

    BBC Panorama Transcript -Suffer The Little Children On sunday July 14 2002 BBC 1 broadcasted the program Suffer The Little Children. Panorama tells the harrowing stories of children put at risk by the Watchtower Society's bible-based policies and unearths evidence of a database of members suspected of child abuse - many of whom have never been reported to the police. Read the transcript or watch the video. (added 07/15/2002)

    Jehovah's Witness jailed for abusing boys James Barratt, 45, of Rugby, Warwickshire, a Jehovah's Witness elder has been jailed for child abuse. He was found guilty of indecently assaulting two teenagers entrusted to him for Bible studies and counselling. (added 07/12/2002)

    Transcript NBC DATELINE Expose on Jehovah Witnesses Pedophile Cover-Up
    DATELINE Correspondent John Larson spoke with victims, their families, and former church officials. They told DATELINE the problem is widespread within the organization. What makes it worse, they say, is that it is virtually impossible to seek justice from the Jehovah's Witness' leadership. (added 05/31/2002)

    Watchtower Leaders launch propaganda offensive against sexual child abuse-policy critics
    More and more newspapers are paying attention to the fact that the Society tries to silence child abuse-policy critics. In this article you can see how the Office of Public Information of Jehovah's Witnesses strikes back by telling the public 'how good they are in handling child molestation'.

    Jehovah's Witnesses act against abuse-policy critics The WTS is taking steps to excommunicate Bill Bowen and three other Witnesses who have publicly criticized what they say is the Society's secretive handling of child-molestation cases. Jehovah's Witness Man Pleades guilty for sex with Teenagers A West Milford man pleaded guilty to child endangerment offenses for sexual encounters he had with two teenage girls he met through his membership at the Jehovah's Witnesses. An elder contacted the police.

    Sexual Abuse Suit Filed Against Jehovah's Witness Leaders Erica Rodriguez is suing the Othello Washington Spanish Jehovah's Witness congregation, and the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses because they violated Washington's mandatory child abuse reporting law.

    Jehovah's Witness elders did nothing to stop the abuse of daughter by father Alison Cousins turned to the elders after her dad abused her for three years. The elders knew the man had preyed on another girl. He confessed to them two years earlier but police were not informed. The elders did nothing because they were "not sure of her claim"

    Elder leaves faith to protest child molestation policies William Bowen resigned as an elder in protest of how the Watchtower handles accusations of child molestation.

    Prominent sister accuses the Watchtower Society's of shielding pedophiles Once a prominent sister serving on Bethel, still a wife of an elder and now fighting for a change in the Society's policy regarding pedophiles, Barbara Anderson is a woman who can play an important role in informing the public about the Society's role in this matter.

    Prosecuter asks court to violate sanctity of confession in Jehovah's Witnesses sexual abuse case A prosecutor has asked the Missouri Supreme Court to allow him to question JW elders regarding a JW who allegedly confessed to sexually abusing two children

    JW parents murder their daughter by hitting her 160 times with a 5-foot stretch of electrical cable "This is the absolute worst I've seen," Assistant State's Atty. Robert Hovey whispered as the parents were led into the courtroom...

    Jehovah's Witnesses and child sex abuse From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jehovah's_Witnesses_and_child_sex_abuse

    And then he posted someone's essay about how the WTS handles abuse cases. I suspect the man has had some experience with this

    He sure has been busy. I think we can safely saw he sees them in a negative light

  • lisavegas420
    lisavegas420

    I got more....

    From a poster asking about the experiment she asks...

    Are they enjoying our brutally honest responses?

    What are some of the other responses you are seeing?

    And this lady posted twice...she's the one from Russia...

    I am amazed at the consistency of the responses. I think that some groups just get a bad rap but others truly live up to their reputation!

    The other group not allowed here in Russia is the Mormons. any group perceived as aggressive in their tactics are not welcome. But specifically JW and mormons are not allowed to come in Moscow. There are a few here in Krasnodar because that international airport is not as strict. But, if they fly in through Moscow they are deported!

    lisa

  • lisavegas420
    lisavegas420

    I almost forgot I also got a private message on the board...

    Hey! If it's info on JW's that you want, a site I like to go to is www.carm.org. Be forewarned that CARM is a Christian based site and as such is biased towards non-Christian religions such as JW's. Some people I've referred to the site have been put off for that reason, but if you can put that aside, you will find a lot of info on the subject.

    Hope this helps you out!

    These are some nice women...hehehe...I might hang out with them from time to time.

    lisa

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    So...

    Now that we have our responses what do you all think?

    I'm actually surprised that not one person was a JW defending them.We have maybe a handful of positives, a few more neutrals and are overloaded with negatives.

    The "world" does not think of the JWs the way the WTS tells them. Their reputation is not that great. In fact it is downright negative.

    Many years ago I heard a JW say that even the negative comments were good because at least Jehovah's name was made know. .

    This has been a fascinating little experiment. Thanks to all of you who gave it a shot even if the responses were not what you expected. I got immediately deleted from one, a second one is now dead because the post has scrolled off the main page and posting to it does not bring it back to the top and the third are busy posting every negative link they can find - which in itself is a true negative.

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex
    The "world" does not think of the JWs the way the WTS tells them. Their reputation is not that great. In fact it is downright negative.

    But LL, don't you understand?

    That's because they are hated and reviled by this evil, wicked system of things which is of course proof that not only are they The Chosen Ones but that we are living in the last days. If the Witnesses say they're moral that should be good enough because who can ever believe what worldly people say anyway. And anyone who says anything bad happens in Jehovah's spirit directed organization must be a liar since the Witnesses are so godly and so moral it would be impossible for anything bad to happen. Unless that person were weak in the faith, in which case it's their fault and not Jehovah's spirit directed organization. Which once again proves we are living in the last days. So bad things are going to happen because Satan knows his time is short so he's going to attack Jehovah's people and try to tempt them with the Internet. And of course all these are results are from the Internet so since we know it's evil, anything that comes from it must be wrong. Unless it comes from the Society's site in which case it's okay. Unless apostates quote from the Society's site in which case it must be a lie and they need to be silenced.

    See? It's all so simple.

  • Lady Lee
    Lady Lee

    BT

    That is scary that you can type all that without getting blisters on your fingers for lying.

    Seems no matter what anyone says the WTS will twist anything to their benefit

  • bebu
    bebu


    I think it's too early to quit the survey; it's interesting to me to see how the public in general perceives the JWs. I only got a couple responses, really, but here they are...

    They are entitled to their religious belief and practices and under 'freedom of speech' can also freely share their views with others. I disagree with their teachings but believe they have the right to practice their religion as they choose.

    and

    I consider them Jehovah's Witlesses.

    xxx is right, more or less, although I DO resent them calling on me at home on Sunday mornings to talk and hand out their "Watchtower" magazines.

    As I understand it, this behavior is part of their religious beliefs, because it is how they understand Jesus' admonition to "go out 2 by 2 and spread God's Word", or words to that effect.

    On the other hand, I wish the Fed's "Do Not Call" telephone list applied to them as well.

    May I say, before coming to this board this was my own view from somewhere on my computer:

    the JWs have a "form of godliness" (which means a great deal to them), which grooms a great many of them into being pharisaical and judgmental. They replace grace with endless rules. JWs are more known for being annoying than loving to other people (or even to each other). They have problems thinking logically; they never answer the real questions but always try to divert attention to 'rabbit trails'. Nice people, some of them, but mentally and spiritually stunted... and I feel sorry for most of them.

    Coming to this board, my opinion hasn't changed, but now I can grasp the reasons for their behavior...

    bebu

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