the quote...... 13.8 million-strong worldwide faith
could be a normal person's assumption, using memorial attendance numbers.
Most "faiths" don't keep such strict membership numbers. Whereas it is very important to high control groups.
Like alot of houses of worship who swell during Christmas or Easter, hannakah, ramadam, ede, just because they don't go every week or are classed as "ministers", they are still counted as belonging to the "faith" - Christian, jew, muslim, hindu .....
I think its an innocent assumption.
wp
Guardian site
by Peppermint 27 Replies latest jw friends
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Will Power
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avishai
bttt
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IT Support
walkaway,
it wasn't in todays first edition- is it in print anywhere else?
Bonnie_Clyde,
Clyde would like to know how to get ahold of a hard copy of this isuee of the Guardian.
I'm sure I read somewhere, though don't remember where, that the story was only appearing on the web site and not in print. From memory, it was because there wasn't enough space in the print edition.
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Matty
Although it was not in the main print edition on Monday, what are the chances of it appearing in the Guardian Weekly - the international version of the paper? Or even this Sunday's Observer?
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IT Support
Although it was not in the main print edition on Monday, what are the chances of it appearing in the Guardian Weekly - the international version of the paper? Or even this Sunday's Observer ?
I don't know. But I agree it's worth buying the papers and checking.
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yaddayadda
I was rather disappointed by the article. It has a number of factual errors, some of which have been brought out, which will cause loyal dubs to doubt its credibility. It also starts off by referring to a whole lot of old discarded beliefs and portrays them as if they are still current beliefs held by JW's. (vaccinations, organ transplants, etc). JW's will merely dismiss it as sensationalism by a reporter with a personal grudge against them. And what sort of journalist cannot even get the official figures of JW membership correct.
The example of quotes from the site was weak too. Why didn't Bates put up something a little more dramatic, like a quote about selling homes and possession to go preaching before 1975 or something similar, or a quote about the 1914 generation not ending.
It also totally failed to capture the irony and hypocrisy of the fact that the Watchtower has fought for it's own freedom of speech in many international Courts yet here it has crushed a website that only contained official quotes from JW publications.
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Neo
Kudos to The Guardian and many thanks to Stephen Bates! It does an excellent job on educating the public about this dangerous religion. Keep up the good work!
I think it's a great article but there are a few problems with it, like yaddayadda points out. The most obvious is "authorised Witnesses websites", which is not an accurate statement because it induces the reader to think that there is a formal list of WT permitted websites for the Witnesses. OTOH, if applied more loosely, that term is correct, since JWs cannot visit sites that contain material in disagreement with WT doctrine at all.
It is a hard choice to choose which WT problems to mention in a short article. One of the difficulties to expound on WT charlatanism is the overwhelming amount of embarassing facts that can be listed. A few were mentioned but it could be said that some of the listed doctrines have been abandoned. Some Witnesses will discard the article only because of that.The example of quotes from the site was weak too. Why didn't Bates put up something a little more dramatic, like a quote about selling homes and possession to go preaching before 1975 or something similar, or a quote about the 1914 generation not ending.
I really wished Bates had quickly mentioned stuff like the 1969 Awake article that told young Witnesses that they "will never grow old" in this system of things or the WT admission that many young people have died because of the blood issue. But I'm happy that he made reference to the issues of blood, DF and child abuse.
About the 13,8 million figure: I don't have a problem with it. If he is referring to the memorial attendance, it's a little innacurate, because in the last two memorials attendance was over 16 million. But if a Witness casts doubt on the reporter's credibility because of the 13,8 figure (instead of 6,4 million), it should be mentioned that WT leadership also uses memorial attendance the same way. For example, in a letter to the Singaporean government about Witness persecution in that country, Milton Henschel, WT president back then, used memorial attendance figures to make his point:
*** w95 10/1 p. 30 Singapore Tramples on Freedom of Worship ***
March 21, 1995
Goh Chok Tong
Prime Minister
Istana Annexe
Singapore 0923
Republic of Singapore
Lee Kuan Yew
Senior Minister
Prime Minister’s Office
460 Alexandra Road
37-00 PSA Bldg
Singapore 0511
Republic of Singapore
Dear Sirs:
A recent Reuters dispatch from Singapore dated February 25, 1995, was most disturbing. It reported that Bible study meetings of Jehovah’s Witnesses had been broken up by police and 69 people were arrested. This report has focused world attention on the situation of Jehovah’s Witnesses in Singapore, where their activities and literature have been banned for over 20 years.
It is difficult to understand why a religious organization which functions openly with full protection of the law in more than 200 countries should be banned in Singapore, a country which espouses the principles of democracy. It is all the more disturbing in view of Singapore’s constitutional guarantee of freedom of worship for its citizens.
Jehovah’s Witnesses have never posed any threat to national security anywhere. Indeed, throughout the world they have the reputation of being peaceable, hardworking, morally upright, and law abiding—qualities which I am sure you promote in your country.
It is true that in their strict adherence to Bible standards for Christians, the position of Jehovah’s Witnesses has sometimes been misunderstood or misrepresented. But, was that not true of the founder of Christianity who also was misrepresented as being against “Caesar,” the government of his day? Jehovah’s Witnesses simply follow the example of Jesus and the early Christians. They respect the government where they live, pay their taxes, and promote good morals. They are conscientious and upright citizens. Never have Jehovah’s Witnesses taken part in any kind of subversive activity in any country and I can assure you that their presence in Singapore poses no threat to your country’s national interests.
Due to recent media reports, the repressive measures taken against Jehovah’s Witnesses in Singapore by your government are now common knowledge. It is especially a matter of concern to their 12 million associates around the world. I ask you to use your good office to remedy the situation and afford Jehovah’s Witnesses in your country the freedom of worship and conscience guaranteed by the Constitution.
I believe a frank discussion with representatives of Jehovah’s Witnesses would help dispel any misunderstandings about our organization and activity and would reassure you that the government of Singapore has nothing to fear from Jehovah’s Witnesses. I would be happy to arrange for such a meeting.
I look forward to your reply.
Yours respectfully,
Milton G. Henschel
President
In 2004, Memorial attendance was 12,288,917, so WT does not see a problem in using those figures when referring to the organization. Bates said that the Watchtower is a "13.8 million-strong worldwide faith". In light of the WT's own use of memorial figures, Witnesses cannot complain of anything.
It would be good if Bates told us how he found that number, however. An aside: the number of people directly affected by the WT religion is far greater than 6,4 million. Millions of people who don't go door to door but sympathize with the religion - like relatives, friends, colleagues and doctors - suffer from the extremist JW practices. The 6 million figure applies only to those who report each month. But hundreds of thousands of children, for example, are raised in the cult risking their lives because of the blood issue. And they don't show up in the worldwide report of this "Jonestown by installments" religion.
Neo
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DannyHaszard
A news perspective with analysis from cult expert Rick Ross
Cult News, NJ - 5 hours ago
Jehovah’s Witnesses successfully shut down a Canadian Web site that featured often-embarrassing quotes from their previously published materials, but now a ...Cult News from Rick Ross A news perspective with analysis from cult expert Rick Ross
01.21.06
Web site in England exposes the writings of Jehovah’s Witnesses
Posted in Jehovah's Witnesses at 11:10 am by Rick Ross Jehovah’s Witnesses successfully shut down a Canadian Web site that featured often-embarrassing quotes from their previously published materials, but now a new English Web site has popped up with even more. click link for more