HUMAN NATURE: what the heck is it REALLY?

by Terry 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

Terry

We all have a nature.

We are each born different from others in many respects.

Our human-ness is conceptually the same, however, as we age our differences become more and more apparent.

Some kids hate vegetables. Some love risk-taking while others cower like whipped puppies. Differences in personality and attitude and taste becoming defining characteristics.

Physically this is all too true. We come in shapes and sizes completely not of our choosing. It defines us.

LET US TALK ABOUT THAT.

What is the nature of our HUMAN NATURE?

Are we completely free? Can we become who or what we desire through hard work and applied effort?

I don't think so. Not at all.

Here is what I think:

WE BECOME WHAT WE ARE no matter how much we may hate the fact it is out of our control.

Some few things we can change along the way: how much, how often, when...we do what we do.

But, our deepest longings are not of our own choosing.

I always say to anti-gay people: "And when did you sit down in a chair and ask yourself whether or not you wanted to be heterosexual?" Because, in fact, we do NOT make that choice. It is made before we even know there is a distinction to be made.

On a large scale from white..............................................to.............................................black we exist on many levels.

Each of us has a greyness/whiteness/blackness on this on each characteristic.

We are passionate or not.

We are enthusiastic or not.

We are optimistic or not.

We are daring or not.

But, the "not" isn't simply the opposite. We can have an infinite range of .....ALMOST.

We might have a CAPACITY to be this or that and a range is reachable. For some it is 1 to 5. For others it can be 1 to 100.

We learn fast in school that some kids can take on a helluva lot of tasks and excell at them. Others can't seem to do a damned thing without screwing it up.

We are NONE of us created "equal".

Our only equality is that we have an equal opportunity to TRY to succeed at something. Our capacity to reach that success may not be inside ourselves at all.

Ever know a fat person who was 100 per cent dedicated to diets and exercise who couldn't lose weight?

EFFORT does not guarantee success.

WHAT IS HUMAN NATURE?

I think we must face the fact that it is random, chaotic, unfair, unjust and wholly out of our control to the extent we are born beautiful, healthy, unlimited and intelligent.....or.....less....much less.....tragically less. Each in his or her own way; we learn to live with it and reach for the stars when we know on some deep level that our reach exceeds our grasp.

(Does this not more candidly reflect the result of some random process of evolution than the temporary setback of a divine plan of paradise for perfect humanity?)

I find it fascinating that we don't actually know who or what we are for many years.

We are controlled by parents, teachers, church, society and politics to "turn out" a certain way according to their plan or template.

How many of us bristle with resentment at this? Most? Many? Some?

At what age did we finally discover we aren't measuring up to the PLAN?

When do we finally admit to ourself we aren't going to be President, or rich or successful or..........whatever the dream may have been?

I THINK WE BECOME WHAT WE REALLY ARE finally and then have to live with it. The awful truth may be so tragically unfulfilling we cannot face it.

What if our nature is to merely be ordinary in some ways and below average in others?

Could we face that? Do we face that?

Human nature is cruel. It is often savage. But, worst is when it is inescapable in us. We cannot hide from what we are.

What if you wake up and find you are drawn to killing (serial killer) or sexual deviancy (pedophilia) or sadistic pursuits or.......make up your own list of horrors...............?!

When and how do we face what is so dark about human nature?

As JW's we had an explanation for all that is dark and failing in humanity and we were part of a grand divine plan to make it better for everybody (if only they will listen!)

But, now...........?

On our own we merely see the chaos. There IS NO PLAN for all of mankind to become perfect and happy and fulfilled. Isn't that tragic?

Yes. We lament the loss of our fantasy. But, we have become more than what we were before when self-deluded. Actually seeing our limits can give us a more reasonable expectation of what life offers on all sides.

By setting our goals realistically we might be more accepting of who and what we are finally.

By having a secure knowledge of why things haven't turned out all shiny and sweet-smelling in our life we adjust and become comfortable in our own skin at last.

We are---in the final analysis---who we are NOT by choice!

We live with it. We work around it. We build and plan and improve where it will make a difference instead of shooting for the moon and falling back on the cold hard ground in failure.

HUMAN NATURE: what the heck is it REALLY?

It is what being YOU actually means in the context of your life. Accept it or flee from it---you are stuck with the result.

Terry
stillajwexelder

It is what is in our genes IMHO
Terry

It is what is in our genes IMHO

Yes.
To create an analogy:
We are a hand of poker dealt after a shuffling of the genome deck.
We may have a losing hand; but, we can still learn when/how to bluff a victory.
Genes...
I don't like it; that I'm the result of chemical reactions at random........but, what can I do about it? Nothing.
Narkissos

Wow! To my surprise I very much agree.
Whether we become what we are or we are what we become the practical result is the same.
Now I'm really interested in how you'll relate this tragic perspective to the rest of your philosophy (especially the political/moral part)...
Eyebrow2

sooooo....are you saying that people cannot change if they want?
Reslight

Our human nature today is sinful; we all are born into this world with corrupt, sinful flesh. In other words, all of are "natural" sinners. All of us are born with many desires to sin, some in this direction and others in another direction. This does not make carrying out the sinful behavior correct.
When Adam sinned, we all inherited his sin as his descendants. "For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners." (Romans 5:19, New American Standard Bible) "Because, knowing God, they didn't glorify him as God, neither gave thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, and traded the glory of the incorruptible God for the likeness of an image of corruptible man, and of birds, and four-footed animals, and creeping things. Therefore God also gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to uncleanness, that their bodies should be dishonored among themselves, who exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason, God gave them up to vile passions. For their women changed the natural function into that which is against nature. Likewise also the men, leaving the natural function of the woman, burned in their lust toward one another, men doing what is inappropriate with men, and receiving in themselves the due penalty of their error. Even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil habits, secret slanderers, backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, without understanding, covenant-breakers, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also consent with those who practice them." -- Romans 1:21-32, World English Bible
The Greek expression translated "gave up" (Strong's #3860) in the World English translation means "to give over to" or "to turn over to". Thus because of Adam's sin, mankind was turned over to these evil desires. Our being born into this world with these desires does not mean the desires are not sinful, or that God approves of our carrying out the desires. If one is born with a tendency to steal, should he claim it is an acceptable practice for him to steal, since he was born that way? If one is born with a tendency to kill, should he claim that it is an acceptable practice to commit murder, since he was born that way?
In the Bible there are several Greek words that are translated by natural and nature (as in by nature). The words (Strong's #5446, 5449) used in Romans 1:26,27 refer to that which is what considered the proper course of a man and woman sexually, when it describes men and women as changing the natural for that which is not proper by nature. Its source has the meaning of "puff" (Strong's #5456) which implies the outcome of a thing. The usage of Romans 1:26,27 indicates that homosexual behavior is not the intended physical use of the human body.
However, as regarding sin, it could be considered natural, for we read that as believers were once "by nature (Strong's #5449) the children of wrath." The outgrowth of the condemnation upon man through Adam's sin is the sinful nature and God's wrath, so that, as an outgrowth of sin, homosexual behavior could be considered natural, but as an outgrowth of God's original purpose for the human body, it is not natural.
http://reslight.net/homosexual.html
Christian love,
Ronald
tetrapod.sapien

holy f*ck Terry!!
YES!!
yes, you so get it. f*ck me! you so get it! seriously. yes. exactly. thank you.
where do i start here?
okay.
the universe is slutty. i have said this before. and i mean slutty in the classic, riding a harley davidson to mexico to buy cocaine sort of way, smoking cigarettes like they were grown by ghandi, rolled by jesus, and moistened shut with claudia shafers p*ssy - sort of way. staying in a brothel sort of way. i mean, "ride the snake. ride the snake! to the lake! the ancient lady! the snake he's lost. seven miles. ride the snake. he's old, and his skin is cold.... the west is the best.... the west is the best... get here and we'll do the rest.... the blue bus, is calling out... the blue bus, is calling out.... driver where you takin' us? ........................ the killer awoke before dawn. he put his boots on,.... he took a face from the ancient gallery... and he walked on down the hall.... he went into the room where his sister lived, and then he paid a visit to his brother, .... and then he walked on down the hall!!! ......and he came to a door and he looked inside, ...... "father," "yes son." "i want to kill you....." ................. "mother.... i want to FF***CCCKKKKK YOOUUUU!!!!!!"
the universe is slutty. she does what she does because she has no choice. she is only what she is!! there is no fucking probablity man! there is no:
"well tetrapod, you know that life and the universe has a 1 in 33308937354829202 chance of existing."
becuase, go to hell you moron! it happened once! which means there is a full 1 in 1 chance that it all existed~! it is exactly what it is: slutty. and whorish. and beautiful. and paradoxical. and poetic. and barabric. and violent. and disgusting. and well watered. and stinging. and painful. and lustful. and lovely. and tender. and soft. and hard. and full of blood. and veiny. it may be all those things that you hate and despise about yourself and others. that we are monsterous animals. that we kill and rape and die a thousand little deaths every day. and the world keeps on turning, without fail, almost by force. life goes on through all of the murky water. from albert camus to hugh hefner, it is what it is. no f*cking jes*s or all*h is going to change jack sh!t about it. jesus and allah dancing in the moonlight and having a lovers quarel together for all i care.
if you don't believe me. make yourslef a martini, and twist up a joint for yourself, and make yourself a hot bath. really hot. that's right. you're an ape. don't punish yourself for not being a human. and take a pack of cigarettes and smoke eight in a row while you listen to muddy waters and think about the nature of nature for a moment. think about the hair on your body. why is it there? stop and think about it for a f*cking second! you're an animal in a hot bath, drunk and high. doesn't it make perfect sense suddenly?! .... humans, man. born to live. heh...
truth? there is no true truth. pilate was right!! ha! even survival is not a truth. it's a genomic truth, not a human truth. the truth is nothing. it's meaningless to us. it's cold and cruel and painful, and every other beautiful thing in the universe, which is everything. the truth will not make you feel better! fool! the truth will tear you down, and bitch-slap you before you can beg to be tied to the chair. the truth about life and the universe, is something y'all should just start f* cking getting over. you want truth? how about you transcend *biology* and *heaven* for a moment, and settle into a nice form of sadism? a sadistic type of teasing, where the pleasure from pleasure is itself, pleasure. guilt free. yourself, and only yourself. as a god, among gods. ... "a nice middle road. you know son, like that nice siddhartha boy from down the street found. why can't you be more like him?"
what is human nature?
damn me. it's the same as universe nature. slutty. don't give me any of this "happiness" and "oneness" and "love" crap, because you know as well as i, in the end, what it is. be a whore, or do not be a whore. you will always be a whore. we will always be whores.
no good or evil. just a perfect, muddy and beautiful balance between the two:
slutdom
tetragod
tetrapod.sapien

Are we completely free?

no. not at all.
Can we become who or what we desire through hard work and applied effort?
no.
At what age did we finally discover we aren't measuring up to the PLAN?
at 28 man. at 28. there's no damn way i am going to trade my old PLAN in for some new one. screw that.
I THINK WE BECOME WHAT WE REALLY ARE finally and then have to live with it. The awful truth may be so tragically unfulfilling we cannot face it.
yes. either that, or the implications are orgasmic!!
When and how do we face what is so dark about human nature?
when you go on that road trip one autumn that you know you'll never come back from, even if there is a god who could forgive every sin in the world. when you admit, that if there were a hell you'd be going there, and looking forward to it.
As JW's we had an explanation for all that is dark and failing in humanity and we were part of a grand divine plan to make it better for everybody
oh my god jehovah. please give me satan back. he's nothing compared to the person i found in the mirror, the night i went looking.
TS
prophecor

Breathe, breathe in the air
Don’t be afraid to care
Leave but don’t leave me
Look around and chose your own ground
For long you live and high you fly
And smiles you’ll give and tears you’ll cry And all you touch and all you see
Is all your life will ever be
Run, rabbit, run
Dig that hole, forget the sun,
And when at last the work is done
Don’t sit down, it’s time to dig another one
For long you live and high you fly
But only if you ride the tide
And balanced on the biggest wave
You race toward an early grave.
Reslight

The subjection of vanity and corruption is only temporary. I am reproducing an excerpt of a study I prepared for the RL website:
Those who think of God as having done all that is in His power to cause the knowledge of His grace and truth to fill the earth have not yet come to know the power of Yahweh's hand. It is not shortened, as he tells us in due time all His purposes will be accomplished. (Jeremiah 51:29) The difficulty with mankind is in shortsightedness -- the feeling that more should be done at the present time. We need to be calm, and to sink into Yahweh's will. -- Instead of attempting to tell Yahweh how we think his plan for the glorification of his name and the salvation of man should be carried out, and instead of attempting to carry out our own plans irrespective of the divine arrangement, we should as obedient children listen to the voice of our Father through His Son and through the apostles and prophets, assuring us that in His due time the message of salvation will be good tidings of great joy to all people -- assuring us that now He is doing a preparatory work, finding and developing His jewels, those who will constitute the judges and governors of that coming age of glory. (Malachi 3:17; Luke 19:15-19; Isaiah 32:1) As soon as mankind has completely learned the lessons pertaining to the rulership of sin and death, then He will work through his chosen servants of this age to the fulfillment of His great and glorious plan, which is not merely for the salvation of those called in this age, but for the salvation of the whole world that whosoever will may take of the water of life freely. -- 1 Timothy 4:10; John 4:42; 1 John 2:2; Revelation 22:17.
The World's Judgment
(80) Who do not see then that the judgment or trial of the world in general cannot begin until the eyes of their understanding are opened, and that God will not set into operation the general plan for the opening of all the blind eyes and the unstopping of all the deaf ears until first they have seen the far extremes of where government by sinful man will lead. Then Jesus, the Bride of Christ and all who have been favored of God in this age will shine forth for the blessing of the world when Satan will first have been bound.
(81) Thus Paul spoke concerning that time saying: "He has appointed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness by the man whom He has ordained. Of this he has given a guarantee to all, in that He has raised him from the dead." (Acts 17:31) This verse does not refer to the judgment of the called-out ones of this age, which takes place in advance, and which was already in progress when the apostle uttered these words. It does not refer to the judgment of Church as a part of the judgment of the world. On the contrary, He assures us that if we are faithful we will not come into judgment with the world in the end of this age, but will be counted as not as "children of wrath," but as "children of the day," "children of God by faith." -- Ephesians 2:3; Galatians 3:26; Ephesians 5:8; 1 Thessalonians 1:10.
(82) Looking at Acts 17:31 again, we see that it refers to the entire matter of the world's judgment as future from the apostle's day. It is still future from our day, though very near at hand. Thus we believe that the great Sun of Righteousness will soon be disclosed, and the shadows of the dark night of sin and superstition and ignorance will begin to flee away. We can no longer wonder that Yahweh, through the prophets, spoke so joyfully of this coming judgment of the world as a great blessing, saying: "Let the heavens rejoice, and the earth be glad! Let the sea roar and the fullness thereof! Let the field be joyful and all that is therein! Then all the trees of the woods will rejoice before Yahweh! For He is coming, for he is coming to judge the earth! He will judge the world with righteousness and the people with His truth!" -- Psalm 95:10-13
(83) Whoever gets the right conception of this word judge, "krino," sees clearly that it means that Yahweh will deliver even the poor of mankind from death to be given a trial, no matter how degraded, no matter how fallen through sin, superstition and ignorance. The divine plan is so wide and so deep and so broad that every member of Adam's race will have a full opportunity of coming to a knowledge of the truth that he may obey and live forever. He cannot receive eternal life in ignorance; he cannot receive eternal life without the eyes of his understanding being opened, and God's arrangement is that they all will see. Then all will know Yahweh from the least to the greatest, and then under the blessing of that knowledge they will be on trial. If after they know Yahweh and know of His righteousness and its reward, and of the penalty of sin -- if then they choose disobedience willfully, persistently, intelligently, they will die the Second Death, "everlasting destruction from the presence [face] of the Lord and the glory of His power" -- in which these will be no hope, from which there will be no resurrection. -- 2 Thessalonians 1:9.
"The Saints Will Judge The World"
(84) It is in full agreement with this line of thought and in disagreement with every other thought on this subject that the apostle declares: "Do you not know that the saints will judge the world?" (1 Corinthians 6:2) Here he distinctly differentiates between the Church and the world. The saints, he tells us, are being judged now -- every son whom Yahweh receives is disciplined, corrected, proven, that only the faithful may receive the higher honors, and that all may be the more wiser in whatever reward he may receive from Yahweh. But the world, he distinctly tells us, is not on judgment now -- not on trial -- but will be on trial in the future; and when the world will be on trial the saints [dedicated ones] will be the judges. (Hebrews 12:6,7; 1 Corinthians 11:32) Having already passed trial themselves, the saints will be the judges under Christ as the great Judge -- the judges of the world during its trial time, during the millennial kingdom reign.
(85) We should rid our minds of the thought that the day of judgment is merely a time for sentencing for wrong doing and the blindness of the present life of the world, and should see clearly that, on the contrary, whatever there is in the present life that is of ignorance, of blindness, of superstition, that comes to all through the fall and through the power of the adversary, all this is to be forgiven men, is to be blotted out, if they accept Yahweh and His gracious arrangements, just as these ignorances and blemishes are in the present time forgiven the disciples of Jesus, and we who believe are counted as free from all condemnation though our Redeemer's merit and sacrifice. So the people blinded of this world, when they come to a knowledge of Yahweh and an appreciation of His arrangement, will be cleared of responsibility for original sin and all the blemishes coming from it, and will be helped by Yahweh and the glorified Church out of all these blemishes, according to the promise of His word, that this will be a time of restoration of all things spoken by the mouth of all the holy prophets since the world began. -- Acts 3:21.
http://reslight.net/course.html
Christian love,
Ronald

HUMAN NATURE: what the heck is it REALLY?

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