What do you believe now? (page 3)

Narkissos

Nothing, or everything.

Dave:

Happily atheist now.

You should be allowed an alias change.

Big Dog

To quote John Lennon, "I don't believe in the Beatles, I just believe in me."

Works for me.

daystar

I have a slightly different question for those of you who claim the label "secular humanist".

Most of the secular humanist values are the same as Christian values. Generally SHs hold to a Golden Rule sort of system of values. Why? Specifically. Is there some universal scientific laws that tell you to still keep those values, that they're "good"?

If you can't answer the "why", haven't you just kept the exact same value system and merely done away with the dogmatic, religious part? Could not there also, still, be a problem with the system of values? Should we not also discover our highest values and put them to test as well?

Daystar (of the "playing the devil's advocate" class)

kid-A

Is there some universal scientific laws that tell you to still keep those values, that they're "good"?

Yes most definitely. "Morals" and "ethics" evolved in the human psyche because they serve the collective good of the species and of the "tribe"...Its not a question of a value being 'good' in and of itself, it is a question of the utility of a particular value for the survival of the individual, and the individual within the human collective, as a species. I dont require a bible to tell me not to 'steal' or 'murder', obviously such behaviours present great risk to my biological well-being and to the collective survival of the species. Similarly to sexual morals, it is in the human childs best interests for survival to have both parents available for rearing, hence, we have evolved a moral aversion to adultery (at least in cultures where monogamy is considered the norm). In cultures where children are raised collectively by the community, sexual monogamy is not necessarily considered a good thing. Morals evolve according to the particular environmental variables, just as all evolutionary traits are selected for or against.

greendawn

I am a Christian but up to now not closely associated with any organised religion.

Hellrider

I believe there is such a thing as universal, objective values. There is a universal "right", "good" and "evil", "wrong". If I didn`t believe this, then there would be no meaning to (my...) existence. And from this, I understand how some might go from there to religion, but with a 99.9% likelyhood, I`ll never do that. If there`s a God, punishment/reward, life after death I`ll take it as a bonus. When I die, if Gods there and says "hi there, welcome, your room is right down that hall, there`s coffee and cookies on the nightstand and free cabel, call the reseption for pay-per-view", I`ll say "thank you very much", and I wouldn`t mention all the mayhem going on down on earth, as I always try to be polite, and wouldn`t want to hurt the old fellas feelings.

JH

If the bible isn' God's word, then nothing is...certainly not the Quoran.

So, I try to make the best of what I learned about the bible.

Jesus talked about the Kingdom, so I believe in that.

I still believe that I have the possibility of having eternal life, if I obey God's laws.

But I'm in a rebellious mood since my JW experience. Look out !!!

mdb

If there`s a God, punishment/reward, life after death I`ll take it as a bonus.

Hellrider,

You then go on to talk about the reward... if there is one (which there is for some), but neglect to comment on the possible punishment. Do you think that a form of punishment would be a "bonus" you'd like to find out about, regreting then that you had a chance during this life to avoid that punishment, receiving that reward you also say "might be there" as a bonus?

I seem to chase you around this board. I don't know why that is.

Jake99

I believe that very soon someone will recognize the Messiah, for his roar is like a lion against the ways of this world. He has been calling out since early 1998 but all appear to be dead in him, and do not head his call. Its a shame that the so called believers have changed their tune from expecting a perfect man to step forward and lead them as a king, and continuine to follow a spirit of Jesus that cannot and has not ever solved a single problem. Christ is a very special man and he will work and walk among you as he did the last time. Miracles and prophecies right before your shadowed eyes.

mdb

JH,

I still believe that I have the possibility of having eternal life, if I obey God's laws.

If you try and earn your way into the kingdom, you're going to be very disappointed. Your salvation does not come through works... "after all that you can do" (WTS teachings). By this, many will be lost. I'm not saying you should not make your election sure (2 Pet 1:10,11), but your salvation is by grace (Rom 3:20; Gal 2:16; Eph 2:8,9; Titus 3:5).

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Eph 2:8,9

Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
2 Pet 1:10,11

What do you believe now?

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