Schizm, Scholar and other WT defenders

by 2112 58 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  scholar

  Jeffro

  The fact of the matter is that your ideas are based upon the opinions of others which include higher critics and apostates particularly the Jonsson hypothesis. Your views are too sympathetic to that hypothesis and thus cannot be considered of your own origination. Further, you have never demonstrated any criticism of conventional chronology but simply ride on the back of others.

  Your chronology is incompatible with Josephus because he has different regnal data for the Babylonian monarchs and has a different view of the seventy years. Ignoring the problematic seven years and the twenty year gap will continue to haunt your inaccurate chronology.

  scholar JW
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  Jeffro

  The fact of the matter is that your ideas are based upon the opinions of others which include higher critics and apostates particularly the Jonsson hypothesis. Your views are too sympathetic to that hypothesis and thus cannot be considered of your own origination. Further, you have never demonstrated any criticism of conventional chronology but simply ride on the back of others.

  That my own research coincides with the great majority on the issue simply stregthens the veracity of my views. It is childish and arrogant of you to suggest that my being in agreement with secular authorities means that I and they are wrong, and that I must have based my research on Jonsson, 'higher critics' or the tooth fairy. There are indeed aspects put forward by some that I disagree with, however in the broader context, the facts are in agreement with me and indeed the rest of the secular community who place the fall of Jerusalem around 587. There is simply no support for your incorrect 607 dogma, and your ad hominem attacks are useless.

  Your chronology is incompatible with Josephus because he has different regnal data for the Babylonian monarchs and has a different view of the seventy years. Ignoring the problematic seven years and the twenty year gap will continue to haunt your inaccurate chronology.

  You obviously have limited abilities to analyse data. Josephus' overall view of the seventy years is consistent with my chronology. All of this has been indicated to you before and I'm not going through it again for you. You seem to imagine that your strawman problems somehow haunt me, but you are obviously wrong.
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  2112

  Well what can I say, I started this thread to try and stir up some good conversation and it seems to have worked.

  Scholar, please re-read your posts here. You continue to argue only one point with Jeffro. Where did he get his opinions from. It has been asked of you where did you get yours from? Yet you don't want to just admit you get all your opinions from the WTS. But the differance is we all know this, but we don't want to argue about "where we went to school". We would like an honest debate on the issue. Can you discuss the issue? Yes or no, can you discuss the issue? Prove to us you are a real "Scholar" discuss this or any other issue with everyone, but stay on topic. If someone gives their opinion and it is something you have heard elsewhere that does not discredit their opinion. Many here have change their minds on different topics after open debate. That is because, as has been mentioned, we know we don't yet know everything. Do you know everything Scholar, really. Does the WTS, or have they too had to make adjustments? I know you may be thinking the old WT line,"It was God who changed his mind, we weren't wrong." I would really like your honest replies to these few simple questions.

  -Where do you get your opinions from? - Can you honestly and openly discuss any topic? - Can you stay on topic and not use faulty (ie. Strawmen, ad-hominum, circular etc.) reasoning? - Is it even remotely possable that the WTS or yourself be wrong on any topic? - If so, would you admit it and or change your mind in light of evidance.

  Schizm, PMJ and other WT defenders I am asking you to also answer these questions. They are simple and I am trully asking them honestly, so please respond in kind. If you have any questions for me I will be glad to answer them also.

  I await your reply. Thanks much for reading

  Peace and love to all
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  Sunspot

  Those who come here to defend the WTS and its teachings, are still blinded by The Great Liar, and are to be pitied. Those of us who used to put our faith and trust in that hypocritical and deliberately deceitful cult, have seen the faults and lies, and have the scales removed from our eyes.

  WT defenders can see the flaws in the Watchtowergod's "reasoning" and overlook them, yet cannot see the actual truth about the teachings, as blatantly ridiculous as they are. It is a precarious position to be in....but some of us stopped following men and have come out of this insideous and hateful cult at last.

  Despite ALL the flaws, purposeful lies, hypocrisy and twisted reasoning, some posters have not yet had the courage to "let go" of the Lie and breathe the air of truth. It IS easier to dismiss these lies and the uncomfortable truth that JWs are being duped at every turn. Human nature being what it is, it is also easier to plod along sticking to these imperfekt men than to face up to the facts placed before them.

  It is painful on so many levels when those scales first begin to fall away and allow the TRUTH into our heart. It is more painful to peer into that mirror and realize we have to make the decision to leave what was once familiar. It takes COURAGE to admit that you HAVE been sucked into a cult....but then we ALL know that the bible tells us that REAL Lord and Savior hates cowards..........

  The WTS-cult defenders and apologists have yet to FACE the truth. They will be have to AWAKE! up as they continue to experience more and more obvious WTS nonsense being exposed and revealed. At times I feel contempt for them but mostly I feel deep pity for them.

  Annie
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  scholar

  Jeffro

  Your own so called 'research' is just a rehash of the Jonsson hypothesis which does not accord with current scholarship but is simply apostate propaganda. In contrast, the biblical chronology developed by celebrated WT scholars is consistent with all of the evidence both biblical and secular.

  Josephus' comments on the seventy years conmflicts with the Jonsson hypothesis in some respects but at least Jonsson admitted that the period was of exile, servitude and desolation which is in harmonyh with Jeremiah. Your views of Josephus are ignorant and show a lack of comprehension of technical data because you have not bothered to read the Dissertation on the chronology of Josephus. You need to read more deeply and widely as I have repeatedly admonished you.

  scholar JW
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  scholar

  2112

  I can assure you that I have indeed read what scholarship has published in regard to these matters and I also keep up to date with related subjects published in the scholarly journals. If you have bothered to read my posting history you will notice that I have developed many new approaches to chronology that as yet have not appeared in WT literature but such concepts and ideas are the product of many years of indepth research into chronology. Also, I have studied closely the Jonsson hypothesis and have found much that is worthless but there are some gems which in fact support our view rather than that of our opposers.

  scholar JW
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  Jeffro

  Your own so called 'research' is just a rehash of the Jonsson hypothesis which does not accord with current scholarship but is simply apostate propaganda. In contrast, the biblical chronology developed by celebrated WT scholars is consistent with all of the evidence both biblical and secular.

  It is amusing that you call my research a 'rehashing of Jonsson's', as I had not even heard of Jonsson when I did most of my research on the issue. It is not at all surprising, though, that I would arrive at some of the same conclusions as Jonsson, as the source data that both he and I used is largely the same. Your 'accusation' is meaningless. You have been shown many conflicts inherent to your beliefs countless times on this forum, yet you continue to allege that the Society's view is somehow consistent with biblical and secular evidence, yet its position is indeed irreconcilable. It has gotten to the point that your posts scarcely warrant a response. I hope you come up with something a little more challenging some time soon.

  Josephus' comments on the seventy years conmflicts with the Jonsson hypothesis in some respects but at least Jonsson admitted that the period was of exile, servitude and desolation which is in harmonyh with Jeremiah. Your views of Josephus are ignorant and show a lack of comprehension of technical data because you have not bothered to read the Dissertation on the chronology of Josephus. You need to read more deeply and widely as I have repeatedly admonished you.

  First you 'accuse' me of basing my research on Jonsson and then, in the same post, you 'accuse' me of differing from Jonsson's views... in keeping with your erroneous views, you have contradicted yourself yet again. You again pretend to have some special knowledge of what I have or haven't read. My interpretation is fully consistent with the overall picture portrayed by Josephus, which gives a definite period from the end of the ten-tribe kingdom until Cyrus. What is more, the dissertation you refer to indicates that the 50 years of Josephus was correcting his earlier references to 70 years, so it is unclear how your view is supported therein. I do not require your 'admonitions'. You still have not properly refuted many (possibly all) of the points that have been raised that disprove 607.
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  scholar

  Jeffro

  You claim to have arrived at conclusions independent of the Jonsson hypothesis but you provide no evidence of this. The Jonsson hypothesis is simply a tired rehashing of Adventist scholarship and such scholarship would have been the source behind any of your primary readings so in this sense your new research is simply a rehashing of Adventist and Jonssson's chronology.

  Our biblical chronology is consistent not only with the biblical evidence but also with the seculkar evidence as presented in our many publications and as I have argued on this website for the last five years.

  No I have not contradicted myself because you follow Jonssons's opinion and chronology you have failed to pay attention to detail because your reading and researech is incompetent. Jonsson has presented Josephus in a light favourable to WT chronology in calling attention to the fact that Josephus recognized that the seventy years is as I have long argued. You have not read the Dissertaions properly because you would have recognized that the seventy years was a period from the Fall to the Return, a Josephian fact that you wish to ignore.

  You have continuously failed to prove your case as you have no date for the Fall and the Return and you have nothing definite about the seventy years. Your whole interpretation of matters is worthless and juvenile just like the Jonsson hypothesis and the ramblings of Alan F.

  scholar JW
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  ellderwho

  You have continuously failed to prove your case as you have no date for the Fall and the Return and you have nothing definite about the seventy years. Your whole interpretation of matters is worthless and juvenile just like the Jonsson hypothesis and the ramblings of Alan F.

  LOL. What of you? Your self complelling defeat is your inability to provide a workable kings list. Your halarity continues. Your hopless defense only serves proof that the Watchtower still has nothing to bring to the Chronology debate.

  Keep it up, "whipping boy" of the boards.