The Atheist's Book of Bible Stories - new - Bible Science

by RunningMan 23 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • RunningMan
    RunningMan

    Well, I'm back with a couple of new chapters. I have been putting this one off for a long time. I knew it had to be written, but just never got around to it, and I still consider it a work in progress. So, please feel free to post any Biblical science errors that you know of. If they fit in, I will add them. And, as always, if anyone would like a complete formatted copy of the book, just PM me your email address.

    BIBLE SCIENCE

    After a lecture on science, a little old lady atthe back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish.
    The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise."

    The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?"

    "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down."

    - Anecdote attributed to Bertrand Russell

    When I was young, I was told that we know the Bible to be correct, because of the uncanny accuracy of its scientific knowledge. This conclusion was based on eight words. Here they are:

    “The circle of the earth” – Isaiah 40:22
    And
    “Hanging upon nothing” – Job 26:7

    If you ignore the prepositions and articles, you come down to two significant words – “circle” and “nothing”. That’s pretty thin gruel to base a life on. But, did the Bible display scientific foreknowledge by indicating that the earth was spherical and suspended in space?

    Well, first of all, we need to determine if the Bible really meant what we thought it said. Secondly, is this knowledge remarkable enough to require divine guidance? And finally, is the Bible scientifically accurate in all of the other things it said?

    The Circle of the EarthIf you look at a pizza from a distance, it looks like a circle. So, when the Bible speaks of “the circle of the earth”, did it mean that the earth was spherical, or just round? Well, the evidence seems to indicate that God thought the earth was flat and round, like a pizza. Here is why I say that:

    "I saw a tree of great height at the center of the world. It was large and strong, with its top touching the heavens, and it could be seen from the ends of the earth." – Daniel 4:7, 8

    So, God inspired Daniel to write that the earth’s surface has a center, and that a tree could be tall enough to be seen everywhere on the planet. But, a sphere has no center, and no matter how tall a tree is, it will not be visible from a large part of that sphere.

    Jesus and the Devil make a similar mistake:

    "The devil took him (Jesus) to a very high mountain and displayed before him all the kingdoms of the world in their magnificence...." - Matthew 4:8

    Now, you could argue that the Devil used a vision to show Jesus the kingdoms, but the scripture implies that the purpose of going up the mountain was to make it possible to see the ends of the earth.

    A similar concept regarding height shows up in Genesis 11:4. In this story, the people are trying to build a tower that would reach right up to heaven. This was very threatening to God, because heaven was his realm. So, he confused their languages and scattered them. I wonder why he hasn’t put a stop to modern sky scrapers. Surely the height of a ziggurat could not compare to the Sears tower.
    So, when the Bible talks about “the circle of the earth”, it appears to be talking about a flat, round surface, not a sphere.

    But, let’s give God the benefit of the doubt and overlook this mistake. Let’s assume that he really did know the shape of the earth. Would that be evidence of divine inspiration?

    Everyone who grew up watching Bugs Bunny knows that common knowledge held the earth to be flat until Christopher Columbus proved them wrong. Except, of course, for a bunch of Greek fellows. In 240 BC, Eratosthenes not only figured out that the earth was spherical, he even managed to devise a brilliant method of calculating its diameter using trigonometry. Aristarchus built on this information to calculate the diameter of the sun. He was a little off, but he realized that the earth and sun were both spherical, and that the sun was many times larger than the earth.

    So, even if God had actually thought that the earth was spherical, it really wasn’t that remarkable of a conclusion. Other people, not too far away, had figured it out all by themselves.

    God’s Other Scientific Gaffs
    Now, you would think that the guy who created life, the universe, and everything in it would have a pretty good knowledge of how things work. But God managed to display the scientific knowledge typical of a bronze-age sheep-herder. Let’s spend a day in Jehovah’s classroom.

    First Class: The Universe According to God.

    "Let there be a dome to divide the water and to keep it in two separate places... and it was done. So God made a dome, and it separated the water under it from the water above it." – Genesis 1:6,7

    So, God put up a dome over the earth, to keep out the water that was in the upper “firmament”. This is where he got the water for the flood.

    "You stretch the heavens out like a tent, you build your palace on the waters above.... You water the mountains from your palace." - Psalm 104:3,13

    God lives up above the upper firmament, and turns taps on and off. The heavens are thin, like a tent canvas.

    All the stars of the heavens will be dissolved and the sky rolled up like a scroll all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree. – Isaiah 34:4

    So, the sky is thin and can be rolled up. Stars are also small and can fall to earth, presumably when the glue gets old.

    Can you join him in spreading out the skies, hard as a mirror of cast bronze? – Job 37:18

    I could go on like this for a long time. For instance, there are references to the “foundations” and “pillars” of the earth, and its “socket pedestals”. But, the point is made – God really didn’t have a clue that the earth was spherical, revolved around the sun, and that stars are actually distant suns.

    Second Class: Biology according to God
    Well, I would expect God to do a little better in this field of study. After all, he created plants, animals, and humans. Let’s take a look:

    And the hare, because it chews the cud but does not part the hoof, is unclean to you. – Leviticus 11:6

    God actually thought that hares chewed their cud. It was an easy mistake to make, because if you put a rabbit in a cage without food, before long, you will notice it chewing something. Like many animals, it will eat its own feces, in order to gain nutrients from undigested material. It’s the type of mistake that a casual observer might make.

    All winged insects that go upon all fours are an abomination to you. Yet among the winged insects that go on all fours you may eat those which have legs above their feet, with which to leap on the earth. – Leviticus 11:20,21

    Has anyone seen a winged insect that goes on all fours? And, what’s up with “legs above their feet”?

    And these you shall have in abomination among the birds, they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, the vulture, the osprey… the stork, the heron according to its kind, the hoopoe, and the bat. – Leviticus 11:13,19

    Here is another mistake that a casual observer would make. The bat flies like a bird, but is actually a mammal.

    As well, God seems to think that dragons (Isa 13:22), satyrs (Isa 13:21), and unicorns (Isa 34:7) actually existed.

    I won’t take a detailed look into the creation account, since that was covered earlier. However, don’t forget that God made plants before the sun. He also created the various types of animals in the wrong order – the fossil record shows otherwise.

    So, God fails his biology lesson, too. Let’s try a physical science after lunch.

    Lunch
    I opened my lunch bag and found, to my surprise, that mom has packed me a Jehoagie – that’s a hoagie that is so big that it seems to have no beginning and no end (Hebrews 7:3). Afterwards, I cruise the halls for chicks.

    Third Class: Physics according to God

    And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the book of Jashar? And the sun stood still and did not hurry to set for about a whole day. - Joshua 10:13

    The apparent motion of the sun in our sky is actually caused by the rotation of the earth. Do you realize what would happen if the sun “stood still”? The surface of the earth is moving at the rate of just over 1,000 miles per hour at the equator. In order for the sun to appear motionless, we would need to come to a screeching halt, then accelerate rapidly to get back into motion.

    The implications of this would be huge. First of all, the papers on my desk would be scattered, to say the least. Imagine that the earth stopped moving. The atmosphere would continue to move, at least until it died down. Visualize the effect of 1,000 mph winds. There would certainly be many other implications as well, but it wouldn’t matter, since we’d all be dead, and my desk would be messed up.

    And, on the subject of physics, he appears to have no understanding of the implications of scale when it comes to surface area and mass (see the chapter “The Long and the Short of it”.) The Bible claims that giants once existed – but they didn’t.

    Fourth Class: Mathematics according to God
    And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it about. - 1 Kings 7:23

    So, according to God, the value of pi was 3. Jehovah really should have been working with the Greeks, because they knew the real value of pi long before he did.

    Every now and then, I go to a hockey game that has 5,000 people present. And, at times, I watch the Saskatchewan Roughriders play football. They draw around 30,000 people. If I stood up in the middle of one of these games and made an announcement, no one would hear me. But Abijah spoke to 1.2 million people (2 Chron 13:3, 4) That’s roughly the population of the state of Hawaii. But, God figured that Abijah could be heard by all those people.

    In conclusion, I should mention that the Bible also makes numerous statements that are scientifically correct. For example, it correctly classifies many different types of animals. But then, why shouldn’t it? The Hebrews were not stupid.

    My point is that the scientific knowledge displayed in the Bible was right on par with what you would expect from a group of ancient farmers and herdsmen. If anything, God’s scientific knowledge would have been lower than that of the ancient Greeks. If the Bible is considered inspired because of its scientific content, then so must the writing of Homer.

  • AlmostAtheist
    AlmostAtheist

    If you are living in a box sheltered by an underpass, you MIGHT be excused from having gotten a copy of this most excellent book by RunningMan. The above is merely a taste of what awaits you. If you haven't read it, you owe it to yourself to do so.

    Visualize the effect of 1,000 mph winds. There would certainly be many other implications as well, but it wouldn’t matter, since we’d all be dead, and my desk would be messed up.

    Priceless. Absolutely priceless.

    Thank you, thank you, thank you!!

    Dave

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    . But, a sphere has no center, and no matter how tall a tree is, it will not be visible from a large part of that sphere.

    Jesus and the Devil make a similar mistake:

    strictly this is not true

  • Legolas
    Legolas
    All winged insects that go upon all fours are an abomination to you. Yet among the winged insects that go on all fours you may eat those which have legs above their feet, with which to leap on the earth. – Leviticus 11:20,21



    Has anyone seen a winged insect that goes on all fours? And, what’s up with “legs above their feet”?

    OMG....Too funny, too funny!

    Nobel Prize!

  • RunningMan
    RunningMan

    Good catch, Stilla. I should probably reword that to say that "the surface of a sphere has no center". The sphere itself does, though. Fortunately, I've never claimed omniscence, so I can get away with the odd one.

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    I knew what you meant and it is a great read - good post

  • Shining One
    Shining One

    Hi Runningboy,

    >BIBLE SCIENCE after a lecture on science, a little old lady atthe back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish.The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise." The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?" "You're very clever, young man, very clever," said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down."


    Good joke but you haven't been paying attention: the alleged flat earth teaching of the Bible is a lie and has been debunked...http://tektonics.org/af/earthshape.html

    >First Class: The Universe According to God. "Let there be a dome to divide the water and to keep it in two separate places... and it was done. So God made a dome, and it separated the water under it from the water above it." – Genesis 1:6,7 So, God put up a dome over the earth, to keep out the water that was in the upper “firmament”. This is where he got the water for the flood.

    You buggered the context and the result is a twisted interpretation. The Bible is using common terms and ideas that the people of that age understood. It is a fact that the Magi of Persia, the Egyptians and Mesopotamian astrologers knew very well the earth was not flat. That knowledge PREDATES the hebrew written record keeping. The below is an excerpt from the article above:

    Is. 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in...

    Job 26:10 He hath compassed the waters with bounds, until the day and night come to an end.

    Prov. 8:27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth...

    Skeptics will assume from these verses a concept of a flat, circular, pancake-like earth. In each case, the Hebrew word here is exactly the same, as Strong's tells us:

    2329. chuwg, khoog; from H2328; a circle:--circle, circuit, compass.

    And here is where we alert the reader to another key word-concept that is missing in Hebrew: There was no varying word for a "sphere" - a three-dimensional circle. It is not that the Hebrews or anyone else lacked the concept of sphericity (for obviously, they could conceive of it plainly when, for example, they ate pomegranates for breakfast!), but that they simply did not create a second word for it.

    Some may cite in reply here the KJV version of Is. 22:18, "He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house." The Hebrew word here, however, is:

    1754. duwr, dure; from H1752; a circle, ball or pile:--ball, turn, round about.

    This word no more inidicates sphericity than our other word, for it is used by Isaiah elsewhere thusly:

    There is really no need to cite anything else since your whole effort is betrayed by your overwhelming desire to discredit scripture, even at the cost of intellectual honesty. I thought you skeptics wanted that above all else? LOL

    Rex

  • corproal
    corproal

    I support Shining One 100 % .I really could care less what others have to say. For every piece of evidence found which supposedly proves portions or for that matter the the Bible lacking, I'm able to find other scholars who would disagree.I understand many have gone through much in regards to being part of Jehovahs's Witnesses ,but to constantly belittle Shining one make you no better than what you've all have formerly been part of.I don't make light of the fact ,that many were JW's .I know all to well what it does to one. My wife is constantly being looked down upon by her family members because she refuse to be a part of this org.

    Here's a little taste of the hypocrisy my wife has to deal with. http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=23286621

    This is my wife baptized sister.Take a look at all of her friends and notice the way she dresses.Many of the people on this page are also her brothers and sisters.

  • startingover
    startingover


    A Jehoagie? Now that's hilarious!

    Corproal

    You're right, no matter what evidence someone may produce, someone else will refute it.

    In my opinion, Runningman's argument makes more sense, apparently you and Shiny One disagree. It seems to me Shiny One made some very lame excuses for stopping short in his refutation. I personally would like to hear his refutation of the rest presented.

  • MuadDib
    MuadDib

    corproal is right - you can always find maximalist scholars who will disagree with any of the thousands of problems that can be pointed out regarding the supposed factual inerrancy of the Bible. Of course, whether they're credible to any degree is another matter altogether. And they're not. Still, it would be fun to watch somebody try to argue that the earth really did stop rotating so Joshua could win that battle.

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