What Bethelites Are Saying About The Layoffs

by wanda 54 Replies latest watchtower scandals

• 

  Oroborus21

  Sorry Daniel, I had heard more, my mistake. the actual percentage isn't that important but even a 25% reduction is significant and I think would be noticeable and generate more direct reports.

  I would prefer to see some actual evidence as opposed to "friend of a friend" or "my cousin Joey" reports. That's not too much to ask is it? why not ask your friends and family to post here with their own first-hand accounts? that would be a start.

  It would also be nice to see actual changes in the real-estate as part of the rumour is a "shift of operations from Brooklyn to Patterson or Wallkill and other forms of hard evidence of the downsizing."

  -Eduardo
• 

  Oroborus21

  I just wanted to add as I had been thinking about this before.

  If the long-term plan was to reduce staffing it seems logical that the Society would no longer push for Bethelites or for new ones to come.

  No business lays off already trained workers to hire new ones they have to train (unless there are costs savings like lower pay or benefits which is not the case in this instance).

  Thus I think that a literature review and monitoring the Service Meeting parts over the next year or so will indicate whether this is so.

  If the Society does have its usual part - as has been the pattern from time to time - of "Bethel Service is Great" etc. In other words, the usual compaign to drum up new Bethelites, to my mind that would run counter to the goal of reducing staff.

  So let's see. The absence of any such part or campaign would support the rumor and the appearance of such would seem to discredit the idea that they were downsizing.

  -Eduardo

  PS: it is not an issue of playing Devil's Advocate. Only one of trying to uncover facts in an Internet world that is permeated with false rumours and half-truth reports.
• 

  Cellist

  Eduardo,

  I don't think that would be a good way of determining whether they are downsizing or not. They are well known for saying one thing and doing the exact opposite.

  Cellist
• 

  Oroborus21

  Cellist,

  I don't think it would prove anything by itself but only suggest or add to the evidence.

  It doesn't make sense that if they were downsizing operations to ask for more young persons or even skilled persons to seek Bethel service. Such a talk or Service Meeting part has been a standard feature once every year or two since I have been associated. So let's wait and see if such a part appears over the next few years.

  But again, that would only be suggestive (aka circumstantial evidence).

  If anyone has any ideas about what sort of hard evidence would suffice OTHER THAN second-hand reports, let's hear them.

  The question asked in the topic title was what are BETHELITES saying and the answer is NOTHING, unless you give credence to second-hand reports of what they are saying.

  I haven't seen a Bethelite post here yet who was among these recent downsizes. And relying solely upon second accounts seems problematic to me. It is evidence but it isn't usually the best evidence.

  I don't think I am asking for too much :-)

  -Eduardo
• 

  Cellist

  Eduardo,

  You're right that this is a report that's very hard to substantiate. They are obviously going to do it in a way that makes as few waves as possible. If they do it gradually, the rank and file will never clue in.

  Cellist
• 

  Oroborus21

  yeah, that is why it is good to come up with good ideas to document it (if it is truly happening that is) now with as much hard proof as possible. the rank and file JWs will miss it entirely and second-hand reports will be totally discounted by most.

  Even first hand testimonies would be useful, but what would really be good is either secret memoranda that could be obtained or other documents which indicate that there is a downsizing plan. Also to monitor the property records if property is sold or spun off would be useful.

  again, open to ideas as to what could be used to substantiate the claims being made.

  -Eduardo
• 

  skeeter1

  They are saying, "I am going to Disney World!" (I crack myself up).

  Seriously, the first hand reports will trickle out. Be patient. The truth always comes out in the end. Just like Crisis of Conscience. Eduardo may just get his wish of secret documents.
• 

  Cellist

  Eduardo,

  The only thing I can think of that would be somewhat conclusive, is if there was a Bethel personnel list. Then it would be a matter of comparing the numbers from year to year. Or, like you said, some internal document talking about it.

  Even if they sell more property in Brooklyn it doesn't give us a clear indicator. They're moving alot of their staff out of the city.

  Cellist
• 

  daniel-p

  "If the Society does have its usual part - as has been the pattern from time to time - of "Bethel Service is Great" etc. In other words, the usual compaign to drum up new Bethelites, to my mind that would run counter to the goal of reducing staff."
  
  You misunderstand the nature of this downsizing. It is designed to get rid of the extra "baggage" of middle-weight bethelites who present a growing risk of medical problems and may have jobs that are easily trimmed back. They will keep on encouraging young boys to go to Bethel because they still need the muscle for the menial, laborous tasks. This 19 to 24-year-old cohort has the highest attrition rate, thus the campaining will continue.
  You say that it would be helpful to have a document outlining the downsizing plan - well, there are many second-hand accounts of talks given by the GB concerning this - obviously this is not enough for you and I'm confused as to why. You seem awfully eager to discount credible reports.
  As far as my personal friends and family posting their experiences on JWD - are you insane? or just sarcastic?
• 

  LDH

  No business lays off already trained workers to hire new ones they have to train (unless there are costs savings like lower pay or benefits which is not the case in this instance).

  LOL, are you freaking serious?

  Hmmm....let's see. Should I keep the middle age guys who are clearly growing weary of the promised end? Hmmm....growing medical problems for the middle aged. Increasing disenchantment with the 'system' by same middle agers who have been around long enough to understand their secular rights. Like the right to sue for Worker's Comp, LOL and win!

  Nah, let's get some green healthy gung-ho young guys. They don't know a damn thing about Worker's Rights. And besides, they intimidate easier.

  Lisa