How can one id a real Christian? (page 5)

BlackSwan of Memphis

Thanks guys, I guess I had worried that it was perhaps being taken to assume that I was being judgmental. As you all have mentioned, that’s not our place.

According to JW, they only love you if you are peddling magazines, if you don't the love is GONE.

Yeah, that’s it. I guess, when I read the teachings of Jesus, I get this very strong sense of love. That we aren’t here to judge. We aren’t here to provide conditional love based on the latest teaching of the WTS.

I’ve talked with so many people lately who left the WTS or chose not to follow through with studies w/ them, because of the serious lack of love. And it hit me…

All my life that I was raised a jw I believed that ‘we’ were “it” because of what ‘we’ had to offer in terms of the teaching of the parousia, of 1914, of the use of the word/name Jehovah.

But after talking with so many and reading so many stories…

What was really important, that was missing, was the sincere love and affection.

People the world over, regardless of denomination or faith, read the words of Jesus and find a consistent teaching of love.

How did I ever miss that?

All the scriptures that have been added to this thread, I have saved, because I have found them very helpful.

Hm, reminds me of an old Bon Jovi song… without love. There’s nothing without love.

Or, ..John and Paul…………

All you need is Love

meagan

Star Moore

Hello there...JGNAT... I think we are in the end because of prophesies in Rev., Dan., Ezek. and others... I think the prophesies are all unfolding. Not according to the WT's definition, not according to the 1914 thang..but according to the %$#%#$@% we have for a president. And other things too. Call me dumb but even though I have completely D'A'd from the WT, I still believe in the bible and God..and Jesus...

AuldSoul

Star Moore,

For my part, you would need to get a lot more specific before I could share your confidence that we are in the end of times.

Which prophecies in Daniel do you think apply to us, more than 2600 years later? Which of Ezekiel's prophecies? Did they also apply to earlier time periods, or have you found something uniquely applicable to right now? I am very curious as to what you have found, but I admit to some skepticism. I am very cautious about buying another end of times tale.

However, in the final analysis I can't figure out what a Christian (or anyone on any other path) would change if it was the end of times. In other words, what difference would it make if these are the end times?

Curiously,
AuldSoul

John Doe

How many scriptures can you list that even have the term "christian" in them?

SeymourButts

Ahh yes, just as was expected. Avoidance of the issue. The question was regarding the identifying of a "true christian". There are many many clear statements in the bible that are attributed to Jesus regarding what it takes. Whether love or any other quality is present is not the issue. One can not pick and choose what scriptures he wishs to apply and then in the same breath proclaim himself as a true follower of christ. This is not a matter of applying what is comfortable and convenient. Paul does NOT trump the words of Jesus, especially if one claims jesus to be god. When you choose to interpret scripture and apply it as you see fit, you are also at the same time, giving validation to the Watchtower and their "interpretation". You interpret and disregard as you see fit.....no different than the Society.

Jesus gave direct commands....the "God" of the old testament gave direct commands. If one can interpret it and twist it to fit their own ideals, then there is no complaint against the Society for doing the same. If it is a matter of interpretation, then any one claim is as good as the next. Maybe we have struck a nerve with those that claim to be christian, yet only choose to follow a small portion of his teachings.

One "interpretation" is no better than the next. Either you follow the bible, or you don't. Don't make excuses for not following the words of the "great teacher".

LittleToe

"Real Christians" eventually come to a point where they realise that judging others and their beliefs is futile, as the final arbiter is God.

As for following commands as if they were rigorous phariseaical laws, well which one could stand? If it's not literally possible for you to follow "be ye Holy as God is Holy", then is it a direct command or an aim while living as a Christian?

Ironically, the ones who jump up and down, about what a Christian should be or shouldn't be, often aren't...

..they make the gate too high, as an excuse for not entering themselves, then apply that irrelevant standard to others.

trevor

Edited due to posting on wrong thread.

John Doe

Ahh yes, just as was expected. Avoidance of the issue. The question was regarding the identifying of a "true christian". There are many many clear statements in the bible that are attributed to Jesus regarding what it takes. Whether love or any other quality is present is not the issue. One can not pick and choose what scriptures he wishs to apply and then in the same breath proclaim himself as a true follower of christ. This is not a matter of applying what is comfortable and convenient. Paul does NOT trump the words of Jesus, especially if one claims jesus to be god. When you choose to interpret scripture and apply it as you see fit, you are also at the same time, giving validation to the Watchtower and their "interpretation". You interpret and disregard as you see fit.....no different than the Society.
Jesus gave direct commands....the "God" of the old testament gave direct commands. If one can interpret it and twist it to fit their own ideals, then there is no complaint against the Society for doing the same. If it is a matter of interpretation, then any one claim is as good as the next. Maybe we have struck a nerve with those that claim to be christian, yet only choose to follow a small portion of his teachings.
One "interpretation" is no better than the next. Either you follow the bible, or you don't. Don't make excuses for not following the words of the "great teacher".

Seymore, you're suggesting traditional formalism versus the more contemporary deconstructionism. Is truth an external, tangible reality, or is it merely the human-made communal presence of signifiers absent their respective signifieds? Are the two distinguishable, and does it really matter?

"True christians" is a term that I don't like. Such terms are egocentric and imply that the user has, not only the ability, but somehow the moral obligation to elevate himself to a position of judge, not for the purpose of benefitting anyone, but, namely for the purpose of elevating his own ego. In fact, "true christian" is completely arbitrary and only possesses the inherrent meaning we assign it. It's simply another way to isolate people, engender rigid boundaries, and increase chaos and depression in the world.

I'll not take part in arbitrary definitions of religious fervor, not because I'm better than those who do, but because it does not fit in with my ideal of how a person ought to act. For those who don't agree with me, I sincerely hope you prove me wrong and manage to find happiness in yourselves, without condemning others whose actions don't seemingly make sense.

LittleToe

JD:

In fact, "true christian" is completely arbitrary and only possesses the inherrent meaning we assign it. It's simply another way to isolate people, engender rigid boundaries, and increase chaos and depression in the world.

Well put. That was why I put it in "quotes", too

BlackSwan of Memphis

"True christians" is a term that I don't like. Such terms are egocentric and imply that the user has, not only the ability, but somehow the moral obligation to elevate himself to a position of judge, not for the purpose of benefitting anyone, but, namely for the purpose of elevating his own ego. In fact, "true christian" is completely arbitrary and only possesses the inherrent meaning we assign it. It's simply another way to isolate people, engender rigid boundaries, and increase chaos and depression in the world.
I'll not take part in arbitrary definitions of religious fervor, not because I'm better than those who do, but because it does not fit in with my ideal of how a person ought to act. For those who don't agree with me, I sincerely hope you prove me wrong and manage to find happiness in yourselves, without condemning others whose actions don't seemingly make sense.

The term real or true is being used in the sense that the Jws do just that. They try to pinpoint what a real Christian is based on extrabiblical ideas. To me anyway.

In the last few months I have met some very interesting people who the Jws would say are soon to be whacked in the Battle of Armageddon. These people are lovely persons who strive to follow the teachings of Christ in a beautiful way.

So what made them a Christian that the Jw's can't see?

How can one id a real Christian?

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