The naive JW and the naive apostate.

by dmouse 12 Replies latest jw friends

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  dmouse

  I’m sure you have heard comments like these from naïve JWs:

  ‘The Society never said that Armageddon would come in 1975, it was just a few brothers who went over the top.’ (So you don’t remember the Watchtower article ‘Why are you looking forward to 1975?’ then?)

  ‘Having a blood transfusion after a massive blood loss will do you no good since blood doesn’t transport oxygen until 24 hours after it has been transfused anyway.’ (Not true, blood transports oxygen as soon as it is transfused)

  ‘Our growth is a sign of God’s blessing, it must be the Truth.’ (What about other religions who are growing faster, like the Mormons and Scientologists?)

  ‘Our decline in numbers is the foretold ‘cooling off’, and the result of Satan’s attacks, why would Satan attack a false religion? We must have the truth.’ (Seems to be a case of heads I win tails you lose, people attack the Moonies but it doesn’t mean they have the truth either).

  ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses are the only religion to preach the good news door to door.’ (Not true, lots of Christian groups do this, even the Mormons. It also depends on what you mean by ‘good news’ I agree that JWs are the only religion that preach the JW religion from door to door, but that’s not saying much is it?)

  I was having a conversation with a JW last week and she said ‘the Society has a lot of enemies, if they ever said anything untrue they would be attacked straight away.’ (LOL)

  She was not the slightest bit fazed when I informed her that there are reams of information which show that the Society had indeed lied but she wasn’t allowed to read it. Not to mention that 99.9 percent of people on earth don’t give a toss what JWs have to say anyway.

  To be fair, there is also the counterpart, the naïve apostate, who says that the internet/paedophile issue/problem x is going to bring the Society crashing down in flames. I’ve been around long enough to know that the GB makes Houdini look like a one legged mouse in a cat’s home. The religion known as Jehovah’s Witnesses will be around for a long time, though it will eventually morph into a more normal mainstream religion (in 50 – 100 years). I think that the numbers will stabilise at around 7 million with no appreciable movement either way unless they do something really stupid (like refuse to abandon the 1914 doctrine, think how stupid THAT will sound in 2064)

  Can you add to this list, what things have naïve JWs or apostates said to you?
• 

  joelbear

  I concur with your feeling dmouse. Hopefully the pedophile issue will result in children being protected much better in the future, but it ain't the end of the Watchtower.

  They will change the 1914 doctrine before 2014, over 100 years time of the end just won't cut it. I agree they may grow to 7 or 8 million, not much bigger than that. They will keep churning people in and out, but will be around a long time after all of us have gone.

  I think the most dangerous naive idea of the exJW crowd is thinking that a few false doctrines will change people's minds. People believe what they need to believe. We don't need to believe it any more so we have moved to a different place. Our friends and relatives still need to believe it, so they do.

  peace

  Joel
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  Mulan

  Great post. I've heard all of those things, including "JW's are the only religion that don't teach the Trinity, and Hellfire, and don't go to war." Also not true.

  I posted this on another thread last night, but I also think some apostates actually believe people will read the reams of material they hand to them, or mail to them. Having been on the receiving end of that stuff, years ago, I immediately threw it away, and never even looked at it. My brother tried many times to get me to look at ONE letter and I turned away like he was Satan himself. They just are NOT open to it. So stop, already. Okay, some will read it, I concede that........but most will not.

  As to the people spearheading the pedophile situation? No one among them, is naive enough to think this will bring the might WT down. It might cripple them for awhile though, especially if they have to pay out in the lawsuits. That could get expensive but they are a very rich organization.

  The main goal is to get them to change their policy on this pedophile reporting issue. And, also to open the eyes of our loved ones still in the Borg. Naturally everyone hopes it will bring them down, but none really believe it will.

  Marilyn (a.k.a. Mulan)
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  lisaBObeesa

  I was actually starting to hope that maybe the pedophile issue was going to make a difference to some of my loved ones, in addition to changing a horrible policy in the Borg.

  Naive indeed. It all came crashing down on me yesterday when I read Tina's post about how the latest WT redefines loyalty as defending the Org in it’s time of ‘misfortune and distress.’ That is basically what it says.

  That's when I realized that the Org is already one step ahead. They already are getting the troops ready, already telling them what they should think when they hear the prase, "JWs protect pedophiles."

  That was depressing when I thought about it. But then I thought, how can we take back the advantage? How can we open the most eyes? If we wanted to be one step ahead of the WT, what would we be doing?

  Thoughts?
  -LisaBobeesa
• 

  UK Rector

  : the naïve apostate, who says that the internet/paedophile issue/problem x is going to bring the Society crashing down in flames.

  Which apostate said that? Let's thrash him/her.

  Are you someone who was going to write to the media and now won't because you feel you have been adjudged as naive by a new authority on the board?

  We ought to be more careful in what we write in such sweeping statements that sway opinion so very easily. Labels stick.

  Give me someone with the courage of his/her convictions any day! I do not buy into their tarring us with the label "apostate" anyway. That's a purely artificial term, and I refuse to use it. EVER.

  UK Rector
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  voltaire

  My hope is not only that the society will change its policies on blood, pedophilia and shunning, but that as these issues receive more publicity publishers who are having doubts and/or are feeling uncomfortable with being a witness will be emboldened to do research on the society. It's hard to leave if you feel you're the only one who feels the way you do. I imagine some stay because they don't have the information they need to evaluate whether the society's claims are true or not. This site is extremely valuable for that reason and as the society opens up(is forced to open up), more and more people will be able to get out. I agree that this will NOT be the end of the society. Most will stay, but for those who want to get out, the changes that result from the upcoming publicity as well as the availability of this board will be a godsend. (A personal note:I'm still in and I think I would've gone crazy by now if it weren't for this board. I don't post often, but I'm out here. Thank you.)
• 

  conflicted

  I think there are three kinds of witnesses in this particular circumstance.

  1) The diehard, devout witness. These will ignore anything negative about the society, because that is where there faith lies. For their entire lives they have spouted Jehovah this..., Jehovah that..., but have had 'society this' and 'society that' whispered into everything they read and hear. They will defend the society to the grave, even when irrefutable evidence is produced to the contrary. When information negative to the society is brought up, they are the first to close their ears and minds. They are so indoctrined and rooted in their ways that they will probably never change.

  2) The mainstream, average witness. These witnesses are typically 1st or 2nd generation, they have had years of brainwashing, but there is still a hint of logic left in their mindset. They typically question the elders regarding doctrine, which is good, but they take the elders word at face value without further question, which is bad. These people will probably view bad news about the organization as persecution, the same as the diehards, but evidence here is vital. The more trustworthy the proof, the greater the wedge between these witnesses and the society. News from other witnesses in in this group carry a ton of weight here, they are trusted and listened to. This is the best group to offer convincing positive proof that the society needs to change. This is probably 80% of all JW's. They write letters to the GB, they attend meetings, they go out in feild service. The society needs to keep this group happy if they wish to continue the worldwide magaizine selling, er placing work. The GB has to change doctrine when this group begins to doubt.

  It is for the benefit of these people that the org has flip-flopped so many times already. The BG watch the news, they know what these people are hearing, and they produce "new light" when it is necessary to keep these people happy because unhappy witnesses dont sell magazines.

  They are generally good people, and they will have real problems with the society if the pedophile issue isn't taken care of.

  3) I don't know that I would even categorized this group as "witnesses" in the strictest definition of the word, I speak here of those "weak in the truth". There are different kinds of witnesses in this group: new bible studies, those that less frequent in the field and meeting attendance, those that have had troubles in the congregation and recieved more greif instead of support. The possibility is really good that they will listen to the news we have to share with them, but they don't hold any weight in the congregation, so they aren't going to help changes to take place at the GB level. At best they will listen, bring their questions to the elders, but it will end there with them being councilled to gird their loins agianst the "worldly influences".

  There is a glimmer of hope for the society. They know that tough times are ahead, they have already started the propaganda mill to head off the "evil apostates".

  We need to continue with these issues as we always have. Get it out so the general public knows - mainstream media, much to the detriment of the society, is still a powerful tool. People DO watch, they will hear, and the society will have to address the issue and change their ways to keep the average publisher happy.

  Is that naive? I think not.
• 

  dmouse

  I agree that exposing harmful policies is good, and brings about much needed reform. I wasn't for a minute suggesting cutting back on that.
  I was just making the comment that some 'apostates' (a label that has no power except in the minds of the JW) get over excited with the possible impact these might have on the Society. That is naive.

  Voltaire - I agree with your comments and your personal note, after the 'I'm still in' bit, applies to me also.

  UK Rector - I don't know specifically who said that, but we have all seen such comments if we have read this board for a while. I agree that apostate is an unfair and perjorative term, perhaps I should have said ExJW instead?

  lisaBObeesa - Good points, but we ARE one step ahead of the Society. It's the poor rank and file JW who hasn't a clue what's really going on. If you are smaller than your enemy, you have the advantage of speed.

  Mulan - more good points. I have buckets of stuff printed out because in my early days as a niave ExJW I thought if only people would read it they would open their eyes. But you are right, they will NOT read anything that upsets their delicate little world.

  joelbear - Do you think the society will change the 1914 doctine that soon? I don't know, it seems a lot of work to do in just 12 years, and they have only just untagged the 'generation' from it. We shall see. Peace to you too.
• 

  LDH

  The BORG has one 'advantage' over its members. They can rewrite history to their liking and no one will question it.

  The children of the faithful are kept so busy 'in Jehovah's service' they don't fully investigate what they are being exposed to. I know, I was one of them.

  I would LOVE to have a heads up on the argument they'll use to get around the 1914 thing in a few more years.
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  troubled

  Voltaire,

  Thanks for your comments. I too am still "in," though I acknowledge the problems within.