by openminded 31 Replies latest jw friends
OMG - I couldn't even read through the thing. Yawn! My advice would be to not respond at all. Doesn't it just burn you up when you put all kinds of work into something and nobody acknowledges it? Sorry - I just got sick of all the roundabout drivel.
Andi - of the projectile vomiting class
If everything that was said in that letter were true, then I'd say that anyone who left the WTBTS would be a fool. However, the statements that are made are in many instances blatantly false.
No divorce? Oh, please. Stick around for awhile and count the number of couples who have split. Not long ago, my husband ran into a brother from our former congregation (I'm not sure if he's still active or not, but he didn't realize that my husband is dfed, or he didn't care). This brother mentioned that almost everyone we knew years ago has gotten divorced. I'd be willing to bet that the divorce statistics for JWs are just about the same as they are for any other group.
Happy and fulfilled? Oh, sure. That's why so many JWs suffer from depression and suicidal thoughts. Check out mental health/depression forums on active JW sites, and you'll find almost as many postings there as for the main forum.
Never can a JW feel good about what they've accomplished. They are always being pushed to do more. Do you put in your 10 hours a month? Well, then brother or sister, why don't you auxiliary pioneer? Have you been auxiliary pioneering? Well, then, obviously you don't really need the money from your job....why don't you work parttime and fulltime pioneer? And on and on it goes.
Did you read a novel rather than the WT? Oh, dear brother...suppose that Armageddon arrived while you were enjoying that worldly trash? Guilt is what drives the organization and its followers.
Anywhere the WTBTS falls short of the ideal is where the "imperfect men" schtick is hauled out. They can't be called to task for anything. If they do it right, it is because they are guided directly by God. If they do it wrong, it is because they are imperfect. Any other religious group is condemned for every misstep, and is totally excoriated by the goons in Brooklyn for being "imperfect".
As a programmer I worked up to 18 hours
a day and did not get paid overtime. One year I worked 33% overtime and much
of that was in a six month period. I was tired all the time, missed many
meetings, did not have time to study the Bible and it affected my home life
adversely. So a professional job may not be as great as you imagine. Take
your dad for example. He has a good, high paying job, but has it made him
truly happy? The Bible shows that people that have a modest job and put God
first are happier. Ever wonder why that is?
This one I had to quote directly, since it is a total crock. I spent 15 years while I was a good and faithful Dub as a secretary. The work did not pay well, I was under constant stress, and it was boring as hell.
I have spent the last 20 years as a programmer. I get paid three times as much, and I have half the stress....mainly because I enjoy what I do. Yes, there are sometimes deadlines and long hours, but the work is enjoyable. Also, whenever extra hours are required, there are comp days offered to make up for it. I am respected and appreciated, and that makes going to work worthwhile rather than drudgery.
The Bible says absolutely nothing about modest jobs equating to happiness. What counts is that you enjoy the work you are doing...no matter what it is.
No prejudice? Once again.....OH PLEASE!! Let's discuss the congregation cliques, and the "royal family" of elders and their wives. How about the preferential treatment given to pioneers, COs, DOs, and Bethelites? There is definitely an aristocracy.
How about the poor sister who is married to an unbeliever? In many congregations, that sister is treated as a total pariah.....and the treatment is worse if she has children.
No, the Witnesses are no better than any other group. They simply delude themselves into believing that they are. Why else would they put up with such a totalitarian regime?
Hey openminded,
Good to see you again, been awhile! Your dad's friend is quite wordy. I'm inclined to echo what Billygoat said. If you even write one sentence in reply, you may get a reply the size of "War and Peace".
So he said he's read apostate material and refuted it. Did he read Crisis of Conscience? I was still a little bit pro-JW before I opened this book. But there is no way to refute the facts Ray Franz presented. And it really aids any open-minded (no pun intended) reader to see that the JW is merely another religious organization with many flaws, not necessarily God's instrument.
So either your dad's friend didn't read this seminal work, or he's fooling himself. Either way, he's happy with what he is, you're happy with what you are.
So you'd do just as well to skip religion and talk about the weather.
GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
Mark Twain (1835-1910)
openminded,
Letter gave me a headache. Just imagine what a talk by him would be like!!!
This is the same old BS that they have been telling young people all along and if I had listened to them 13 years ago I would still be working for low pay and waiting for the end to arrive.
It's all down to the old adage, thanks but no thanks.
Go to college, pursue your goals. There's nothing wrong with wanting a decent life.
Good luck to you,
Dins
Openminded:
He did say one useful thing however:
But if you do not want to discuss it just send me a note and tell me to stuff it.
Is this a person who you really want to try and maintain a relationship with? Will it ever be a harmonious relationship?
If not, the above is a fairly good option. Should this action have repurcussions then why reply at all? The fact is, if you don't respond to his persuasion you'll be in a corner, and that will lead to friction with your family. Make them play to your agenda, not the other way around.
Expatbrit
Well this is my first response. Hope I am not opening a can of worms. I would like to put together a rebuttle to the college issue first. Any and all input is very,very helpful. -OM
Hello XXXX-
Good to hear from you! I hope all is well with the XXXX Clan! I have just had a few minutes to read your letter and I see you bring up several different subjects. Here are a few I picked out(at first glance):
*Do JW's have Gods backing?
*Is college for Christians?
*Can a Christian think independently?
*Is the JW view of apocalyptic prophesy correct?
*WT Doctrine in general
*Racial prejudice
I would be glad to discuss all of these topics with you, as they do interest me. The problem for me is, I don't have time at this second. When I get time, I will respond to each point(1 at a time) as presented in your letter. One thing I will say now is that my opinion's are in no way an attempt to weaken or lesson your faith in whatever religious ideas or dogma you choose to follow. I am confident that we can agree to disagree on certain issues without becoming offended or hurt. I feel that any person or organization who claims to be God's one and only mouthpiece on earth would be prepared to answer a lot of questions.
On a personal note, I am a senior pursuing a Business degree at the University of XXXX. My real academic interest is sociology/anthropology and I have been incorporating such studies into my degree. I plan to continue on with graduate studies in 2003. I work full time for a large XXXX manufacturer(since April 97)as a trafficking/production manager and I own and run a small vending business. I recently bought a home in xxxx. My son(who I don't think you have ever met) is almost 6 and started K-Garten yesterday. He and I are big sport fans and I am an assistant coach on his youth soccer team. My wife xxxx(of almost 8yrs) works as a property/casualty-insurance underwriter for a firm in yyyy. xxxx and I are really busy with our new home. My brother xxxx signed a 1 year contract to teach English in France and is leaving in about two weeks. I will be visiting him there this winter. He lives here(for now) in xxxx and is soon to graduate with a double degree in French and International Studies from xxxx State Univ. xxxx(my df'd brother) and I are close and enjoy playing trivia at a local resturant in our spare time. He volunteers at the ER in a local hospital and I plan on taking over his position while he is gone.
I have to run for now but will catch up with you later. -OM
I'd go for your personal note bit thanking them for
enquiring after your well being then block their arse
unless you want to have the elders knocking on your door
(cant remember if you've left already)
sounds to me like theyre fishing for you to say
something incriminating
nelly
I vote for replying, "Thanks, but no thanks."
Hello Openminded,
When trying to reason with a sincere JW the best approach, I've found, is to test weather their convictions stand up to the light of scripture. What I mean by this is weather their convictions, both doctrinal and emotional, are DIRECTLY supported by the Bible.
An example:
Probably the one thing that stung the worst in my more "active" JW life is the almost paletable lack of sincere Christian love I encountered among the brothers. Since I knew Gods spirit produced love I reasoned a lack of love ment a lack of Gods spirit. The scripture says at John 13: 34,35
34"So now I am giving you a new commandment: Love each other. Just as I have loved you, you should love each other. 35Your love for one another will prove to the world that you are my disciples."
So based on just these scriptures I could, and did, reason that I do not see fellow JW's showing the love Jesus COMMANDED believers to show and futher, it would be against my Bible trained conscience to try to recruit others, unsuspecting victims, into an aneimic form of worship to God. The true Jesus type of love was the absolute PROOF of desciplship and the true followers of Jesus.
All other so-called "proofs" of being the true religion ment nothing in light of that one simple scripture.
This is true as regards my conscience and convictions. Perhaps your dads friend can share with you what he considers very important about JWism and you can test weather, in the light of scripture, his thoughts have a secure foundation.
Well, I hope this made sense.
CornerStone
That is a GREAT response!! Kill them with kindness. I sincerely hope that this guy is a mindless window washing drudge. If he was any kind of human, he couldn't help but be a little jealous of your success.
then you get to get him throughly with each of his points one by one to let them all sink in. I think it's great.
Slipnslidemaster: "I don't know why we are here, but I'm pretty sure that it is not in order to enjoy ourselves."
- Ludwig Wittgenstein
