Why do JW's elders act like their failed predictions is no big deal? (page 3)

garybuss

I didn't mind any of it initially. I accepted the party line. I just had some basic expectations. Expectations that what they said was "truth" was true, that it was real. I expected that if they were speculating (guessing) they would disclose that up front. Especially when I was encumbered to believe the speculation as if it were fact on threat of shunning.

To disclose that a prediction was speculation (guessing) after the fact, after the speculation failed, was behavior that fell way short of my expectations. Basically the Society didn't meet my minimum standards for a group to associate with. So I quit associating. The Witness employees' denials that the predictions had ever been made pissed me off.

I was still rather indifferent to the Witness people from the time I quit associating in 1974 until they started to shun me in 1992. That shunning and snubbing pissed me off all over again and this time I had resources to get my education about the Witness group's history and behaviors both as people and as a business corporation. Since then it's been a lot like peeling an onion for me. One layer peeled off reveals another layer. The outer layer looked rotten, but it's healthy by comparison to the core. At the core is a fascist government in waiting, masquerading as a business, masquerading as a religion.

My biggest mistake with the Witness people was trusting them and not questioning enough. I gave my Witness relatives and other smiling Witnesses, free and unsupervised assess to my family and I paid a heavy price for that mistake.

Inquisitor

The most you can accuse JW's with today is "wrong expectations" which is not a sin at all because the apostles did the same thing. - booker-t

JW's assert that the apostles "did the same thing". But that is a blatant twist of facts.

WTS predictions were in black and white, clear for all of "God's household" to see. Then the rank and file of the time were often shown the method of calculating such dates, expected to incorporate such dates into their belief system, and to make serious changes in their lives in light of the impending end.

By contrast, all a JW can scripturally point to is the fact that the apostles in Jesus' day either had preconceived notions of God's plan

"11 While they were listening to these things he spoke in addition an illustration, because he was near Jerusalem and they were imagining that the kingdom of God was going to display itself instantly" - Luke 19:11

"6 When, now, they had assembled, they went asking him: "Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?" 7 He said to them: "It does not belong to YOU to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction" - Acts1:6,7

or were aware that their knowledge was incomplete

"9 For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially; 10 but when that which is complete arrives, that which is partial will be done away with." - 1 Corinthians 13:9,10

UNLIKE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, the apostles didn't write Gospels or letters to publish such tentative ideas and pass them off as divine secrets. The record shows that the only time their ideas were verbalized was to their Teacher, the purpose of which was to confirm, not inform. Consequently they also did not have to write new Gospels or letters to explain the errors in their "expectations". No apostle had to excuse his backflip by sheepishly quoting Proverbs 4:18, using terms like "new light " and "old light". As far as they were concerned, you were either in the light, or you're in the dark.

INQ

XBEHERE

Because they still think that the WTS is right even though they blatantly are not.

Personal experience: I recall back to 1995 when the generation change took place, we were at a party with a few close friends and the subject was brought up and someone said "well the end could be anytime now, 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 yrs from now" being the company man that I was back then, you know the pre-elder MS kiss ass type, I defended the WT and said that the change made complete sense and Jesus words are now clearly understood. It didnt even occur to me that they changed the outlook of every JW since we all thought the end was in a yr or so at that time. Amazing isn't it how brainwashed we could be. Its scary really.

Ténébreux

he told me that "false prophecies" (deut 18:20-22) is under the old testament law and christians are no longer under that law so JW's are not false prophets at all since they are not in old testament times

The part of that scripture that explains how to identify a false prophet isn't a law, it's just a fact - false prophets get things worng. That's the way it has always been and always will be. The law is the bit where it says what should be done with the false prophet. I would have agreed with him that the Old Testament law of throwing rocks at them is outdated, and asked if he had any objections to me following Jesus' advice to simply ignore them, found in the New Testament.

Terry

There is only one way to tackle the issue of FAILED PROPHECY as regards Watchtower publications and their own public response to the failure of their predictions and pronouncements to come true.
You have to be very precise in quoting verbatim the actual language of the Watchtower Society about prophecy.
It instantly becomes more than clear that there was never any room for doubt in what they were saying.
The phraseology went out of its way to deflect criticism that it might be mere speculation.
An early example:
1874: "The fact of our Lord's second coming is DEFINITELY SETTLED by the Scriptures...The Scriptures show that his
second presence was due in 1874...This PROOF shows that the Lord has been present since 1874...The INDISPUTABLE
FACTS, therefore, show that...the Lord's second presence began in 1874" (Quoted in Watchtower Mar 1 1922)
I have underlined and made BOLD the carefully chosen words necessary to cram this idea down the throat of the reader.
There is nothing humble in these sentences or tentative or conjectural or provisional or speculative for a reason. The writer had no humility or scruples or sense of responsibility that comes from providing false information to others under the mantle of divine authority.
There was always a misuse of the word "evidence" coupled with the word "bible". Evidence has strong inferences to that which a court of law finds acceptable to prove a point. The word "bible" connects this concept to God. It is very powerful language, indeed! However, in a court of law there is a chain of custodianship necessary to establish as fact that something purported to be true is, in fact, true. Evidence is tested and crosss-examined. Not in the Watchtower!
C.T.Russell was presented__as though__he was the very angel (or messenger) mentioned in Revelation in connection with the Laodicean church.
When the end did not come in 1844 (in connection with William Miller's adventist predictions) and the so-called "Great Disappointment" swept the ranks of stunned believers, what happened?
C.T. Russell "explained" this failure in a most peculiar manner! He never once questioned the ACCURACY of Miller or his predictions! Miller was wrong, there was no doubt about it. However, the fact of being wrong was invisible to Russell!
C.T. Russell framed the failure of 1844 to bring what Miller had predicted in an entirely different context!! It is stunning to read Russell's words:
"But, notwithstanding the disappointment, (Miller's) movement had its DESIGNED EFFECTS- of awakening an interest in the subject of the Lord's coming, and of casting reproach upon the subject by reason of mistaken expectations. We say designed effects because without a doubt the hand of the Lord was in it."
Did you read that?? (Thy Kingdom Come 1891) Read on..........
"...we recognize that movement as being in God's order and as doing a very important work in the separating, purifying, refining, and thus making ready, of a waiting people prepared for the Lord."
"...it has ever since served to test and prove the consecrated...it was the beginning of the right understanding of Daniel's visions, and at the right time to fit the prophecy."
Are you able to follow that reasoning by Pastor Russell?
1.Miller was wrong about the facts and details and it brought reproach on the entire subject of end times prophecy. BUT THE IMPORTANT THING IS THAT IT DREW ATTENTION to end times prophecy and that is a good thing! This is the most extreme example of cognitive dissonance I've ever seen.
A bad thing really is a GOOD thing!
2.God designed his Kingdom coming to be made public BY MEANS OF FALSE PROPHECY in the following way:
A. Miller would get people's attention by incorrectly predicting the event.
B. The consecrated (true)Christian would have his faith tested by believing and being disappointed in the false prediction
C.It would call attention to the fact that a genuine prophecy needed to be discovered in an accurate manner.
D. The right prediction would be made and come to pass as a result of all the above.
Wow!
If you have ever doubted the sanity of C.T.Russell it is now the time to contemplate that fact.
BUT BE AWARE---this thinking has never left the core of the JW mentality!
In effect, it is a double standard of logical illogic. It is down the rabbit hole and in a Wonderland where everything is topsy-turvy.
There is no such thing as "false prophecy" when it comes from Jehovah's select few (they "reason") because he is using them to set up
readiness and a focused awareness of what really will happen eventually.
Compare this to the story of the Little Boy Who Cried "Wolf" A constant warning followed by a non-event dulls the awareness and actually creates the opposite effect intended.
One more example of particular language of certainty in a more recent venue:
1968: "During WWI, God's people expected it to lead directly into Armageddon (notice they don't say exactly "why") but Jehovah prevented such a climax at that time. We didn't succumb to such an expectation during WWII." (Kingdom Ministry Jan 68)
1942: "The Watchtower does not consist of men's opinions" (WT Jan 1 1945)
1943: "This is not giving any credit to the magazine's (Watchtower's) publishers, but is due to the great Author of the Bible with its truths and prophecies, and WHO NOW INTERPRETS its prophecies. He it is that makes possible the material that is PUBLISHED IN THE COLUMNS OF THIS MAGAZINE.." (WT April 15 1943)
1968: "True, there have been those (Who??) in times past who predicted an "end" to the world, even announcing a specific date. yet nothing happened. The "end" did not come. They (WHO??) were GUILTY OF FALSE PROPHESYING. WHY? What was missing? Miss from such people were God's truths and the evidence that He was using and guiding them...BUT WHAT ABOUT TODAY? Today we have the EVIDENCE required, ALL OF IT."
ASTONISHING, ISN'T IT?
Here is the same mindset as C.T. Russell demonstrated and the same (non) reasoning and (ill) logic.
Any body OTHER than the Watchtower who makes a prediction that falls flat as an obvious non-event and error identifies themselves as a FALSE PROPHET. But, when the Watchtower does it --it means just the opposite! It means he is using them to accomplish his will be demonstrating they are EAGER for God's prophecy to come true!!
A double standard.
A false premise.
A self-contradiction.
Intellectual dishonesty.
Willful stupidity.
The elder's thinking is contaminated with this form of "reasoning" because they have shut down their rational mind.
In the George Orwell book 1984 this double-think (War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength) enables BIG BROTHER to absolutely control citizens by destroying the link between cause and effect for their own purposes.
What you observe when Elders of the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses brush off failed prophecy from the pages of Watchtower Publications is the end product of this contaminated thinking.
It is evidence of the cancer which began spreading with C.T. Russell over a centuray ago.
NOTHING HAS CHANGED!!
One last thought.....
Consider this:
The magazines and books peddled from door to door contain this inferior form of reasoning and logic passed off as divine guidance. This is the propaganda messege that has been heralded around the world. It has been flawed, erroneous and contaminated with hallucination from the very start and continues to this day. Yet--the Jehovah's Witnesses point to this very door to door ministry as what identifies them as God's chosen representatives!! If ever there was bull's eye for lunacy it is this very fact. The thing that clearly paints them as false prophets is what they most wear as a badge of honor!! Get out the straitjackets and open the asylums; the Kingdom has begun!!
Terry Walstrom

M.J.

Great stuff, Terry!

The thing that gets me is how the concept of the Watchtower Society is a classic example of doublethink...

In the mind of a JW,

in the context of past teaching the WTS is acknowledged to be fallible, yet,

when it comes to present teaching WTS is suddenly infallible.

JT

By contrast, all a JW can scripturally point to is the fact that the apostles in Jesus' day either had preconceived notions of God's plan

"11 While they were listening to these things he spoke in addition an illustration, because he was near Jerusalem and they were imagining that the kingdom of God was going to display itself instantly" - Luke 19:11

"6 When, now, they had assembled, they went asking him: "Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?" 7 He said to them: "It does not belong to YOU to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction" - Acts1:6,7

or were aware that their knowledge was incomplete

"9 For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially; 10 but when that which is complete arrives, that which is partial will be done away with." - 1 Corinthians 13:9,10

UNLIKE JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, the apostles didn't write Gospels or letters to publish such tentative ideas and pass them off as divine secrets. The record shows that the only time their ideas were verbalized was to their Teacher, the purpose of which was to confirm, not inform. Consequently they also did not have to write new Gospels or letters to explain the errors in their "expectations". No apostle had to excuse his backflip by sheepishly quoting Proverbs 4:18, using terms like "new light " and "old light". As far as they were concerned, you were either in the light, or you're in the dark.

############################ excellent point yes this has been the explanation i have used and i driven home the point hard that the apostles "ASKED" Jesus was the world about to end, yes they wanted to get it cleared thru jesus before they went forth thruout the land declaring this as divine NEW Light for they knew that god and jesus's "REP" was on the line unlike the wt they just went ahead and Signed Gods name to the check not once, not twice but many times and each time the check bounced then they want to pull out the "WE -B- Imperfect card" heck that is what every religion can do then when their dogma is wrong as one catholic guy told me in service oneday - if a 1000yrs is as one day to god, then the catholic church has only been wrong for a couple days, Why not just wait on the lord to correct things i thought that was a brillant comeback- smile

Jake99

I want to know which predictions you think were wrong. And I want to challenge the believers to identify the True Christ among the false prophets. That means that every lunatic walking the Earth that says he is Christ is to be investigated. The criteria needed to fullfill such demanding requirements is enormous, which would rule out most people very quickly and only one man would survive such an inquiry.

DannyBloem

Why do JW's elders act like their failed predictions is no big deal?

well it's not the failed predictions of the elders but of the GB. The GB tells the elders that it is no big deal, so that is what they tell you again.

very "interesting" reasoning about the false prophets and the law, this elder had. Most JW's do not call the organisation a real prophet, although they say it is gods channel etc (all things that a prophet shoud have, they say they have). That is why they need such strange excuses

run dont walk

I share your frustration, I asked my elder brother how many mistakes does an organization have to make to be a false prophet, he claims the Watchtower has not made any, <sigh>, when will they learn.

Why do JW's elders act like their failed predictions is no big deal?

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