Please help if you can!!

broken

Hello all,
This is my first time so I hope I don't sound too pathetic.
My situation is this: I am not a JW, but I am in love with a girl who was raised a JW. We've been together for 4+ years and I would like nothing more than to marry her. She has been what I guess you'd call "inactive" for almost two years, but I don't think her convictions have weakened any. At first I thought we could just "agree to disagree", and that I'd be cool with that. But, when it comes right down to it, there are obviously issues here(duh). I am not only concerned about her, but her soul as well. And then there's the issue of how we'd raise our children. Don't underestimate me - this is not puppy-love and I've been mulling this over for almost 5 years. I pray and pray for God to use me to touch her heart, but I just don't know how. I have purchased dozens of books and read them all.
Everything I've read leads me to believe that I need to create doubt in her mind about the WTS' authority and infallibility. Apparently, the best way to do this is to show her old WT literature, but if I were to just spring that on her, she'd know in a second what I was trying to do.
Ayway, my question is to all of you who were born and raised JW. What first sparked that initial doubt in your mind and what happened next?

StifflersErSlayersBrother

Coming as a guy raised a Dub. I feel for ya man. I can so totally understand where your comming from. But you gotta realize, she's been raised one her whole life and been taught to immediatly get away and fight anything that seems Apostical to her. Anything you get (wether it be literature, ideas, or thoughts from this board) Just might scare her away from you. Im not saying that it will, im just saying it might. Maybe she's got an open mind about all you tell her, but then again, she might not. I have a g/f in the org and I know I need to tell her my feelings at the moment, but if I do, I know that not only will she not want anything to do with me again, but she'll be so heart broken, i'll just feel like killing myself for telling her. Of course, im not telling you this to scare you from breaking her free, more power to ya, im just saying, becarfull of what the other consiquences may be.

PS. Not to break the mood, but Amazings post on how the org views masturbation really opened my eyes, lol. Try looking into the 607 BC issue, and the 1975 thing as well. There's loads of information on the net about them. check out http://www.607v587.com

Patriot

Welcome Broken,

I was in the "truth" ever since I was about 3. My mom use to bring us to the hall although she was not baptized. When we were old enough to walk to the hall ourselves, we did.

So Have the JW upbringing. What did it for me was the 607 issue.

Jw foundation lies in their belief that Christ return to rule invisibily in 1914. They get this by a series of calculations that start with the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 bc.

The catch is that all news and history sources say that this destruction actually took place in 586/7 bc and not 607.
You can look it up in all encyclopedias and you will see. Most JW will say that that is apostate info. and won't pay any attention to it. Thats the way we were trained. That even though everyone in the world says one thing and jws alone say another, the Jws are right. The fact that everyone else in the world thinks diffentely just fuels their belief that they are the "only true religion" and that they "have special knowledge" of Gods things.

Now how you will break this to her is another story. The way it was broken to me was that a fellow witness just asked.

He said: " Hey Patriot, why do all the encyclopedias and news sources that I've looked at say that Jerusalem was destroyed in 586 bc and we (jw) say that it was 607?"

That got me so I promised him (being a "mature witness" ) that I would look into it. I could never find any proof of the WTBTS allegations. After that I told my wife and went down the list.

So just ask her straight up but with a concern like that your actually interested for YOUR knowledge not for her to "stumble".

Mav-

broken

Thank you both - I have read about the 607 issue, I think that is an avenue I will explore further. Thanks!!

patio34

Hi Broken,

It's nice to have you here at the Board, the coffee shop, the ol' watering hole.

I hope you can resolve your issues with your sweetie, but it can be a tough nut to crack.

All I can do is relate what broke the hold on me--after 28 years. I became a JW as an adult.

It was dinasours mainly and the violence in nature. According to the JW and Bible teaching at Gen. 1:30, all creation ate vegetation. Then after Adam sinned, the violence began. However, the fatal flaw is that dinasours existed way before humans and were extinct before humans. SO, their carnivorous ways had nothing to do with any sin on Adam's part.

After that, the rest fell like a house of cards.

Good luck.

Pat

larc

broken,

I was raised a Witness and what did it for me was reading the very old books. This was before the the internet, and even many books had not yet been written about the religion. I just kind of found it out on my own.

Whatever subject you chose to pursue with her. I would go very, very slowly. You might open up the discussion by asking her about the history of the religion. This will allow you to determine what she does know and what points you might bring up. I wouldn't say too much during the first conversation. I would let her do most of the talking and see where that takes you. After that you could bring up a subject like the Great Pyramid teaching or Beth Sarim and see how she handles it.

AngelofMuZiC

Broken...

I know how you feel...and I know how she feels because I was raised in the truth...and I find myself struggling with letting go of the convictions and pre concieved idea daily. And let me tell ya, it ain't easy. It takes a lot of patience, and it's very stressful, because as a Jdub, you are so anal about everything. Anyway, there is a Watchtower Chronology site that has the chrono. dating all the way back to the late 1700's, showing all of the errors and false prophecies made by the WTS. It is listed here on this site by some other posters...if anyone knows the web addy, speak up!!! This will give you a little more ammo. Let her read it for herself, she will most likely want to do further research, and that paves the way for her to find out the truth.

Best Wishes,
Joanne

indireneed

I recently went through the problems you are describing, only post-marriage. While I have never been a Witness, I have associated with them for a year and have studied extensively for the past year. My wife and I are now trying to adjust to living in a world where I have spoken harshly about her religion.

In all, I spent the first month thinking, "wow, the Witnesses are really trying to be different", the next three months thinking, "wait a minute, this isn't from the Bible", the next three months thinking, "well, this is really crap, but I love my wife and I'll keep trying" and then the final two months hating every second of being at the hall and talking to people I knew were completely misguided (although on the whole just trying to be good people and easily influenced).

My wife then left me to visit her father for a week (I couldn't get out of work), and I got busy to bring together some material. The research I did convinced me beyond a shadow of a doubt, which was all that I needed. Then, when she arrived we read the document that I had written explaining what I found and what were my next steps. I laid a whole lot of information on her at once.

Truthfully, I probably could have found a better way, but I couldn't stand to go to the hall anymore, and I feared for her life - she would be losing her freedom for years, until she realizes the problems. So, I went on the offensive, and spent a really, really bad night with my wife of a year.

Anyway, in the end, five days later, she has accepted my feelings and actually respects the fact that I used the Bible to try and prove her wrong (I took the false prophet approach). She has not budged, but I no longer go to the hall with her and she understands how I feel about the Witnesses, and she knows that I love her.

It was not the best route to take, but it was a route, and now my life is better. She knows where I am, I know where she is, and we enjoy out lives the best we can.

I would be happy to tell you more about how I believe our marriage will continue if you want. You can send me an e-mail and questions to [email protected].

Hope this helps. Just make sure you understand the hold her organization will have on her if she reassociates. It's a decision that has to be made.

MegaDude

The thing that sparked those first solid doubts were the plethora of false dates predicted for the Big A (Armageddon) to hit. The dogmatism of those statements led me to think there might be more things wrong with The Society.

Why not sit down and watch the video "Witnesses of Jehovah." Don't take the offensive. Just take the questioner position. Ask her if the things in this video are true, then shut up. In this way you gently put in her in the position of seeing the Watchtower for what it is without you putting yourself in the position of a Watchtower attacker.

Perhaps you should ask yourself if she stays a JW, or wants to become a stronger JW, would you want to be married to someone involved in a religious cult?

thewiz

JW have a firm upbringing that it is a horrible thing and virtually a shame to the family name, to date someone who is not a JW.

Not to imply that you are a derelict. But if she has been seeing you and/or dating you and she knows you aren't a JW, she can't be much of a JW. So you have a head start right there.

However, it is probably true that she hasn't given up on many other WTBS things. So that could be hurdle.

I think if you try to spend an inordinate amount of time "proving" something to her (no one likes to be proved wrong), it may alienate her. You would then become the "apostate" -and there is no worse label a JW can get, other than recent developments regarding the up and coming NBC Dateline thing, I guess.

Tread carfully. Be truthful. Above all else, be honorable.

Just being honest.

Please help if you can!!

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