Angel of the Lord (page 2)

Star Moore

I definately agree with you, Heathen... Jesus isn't God or equal to him. Here's why.... You stated this:

You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

Jn 5:39,40

When Jesus said this to the Jews, the only Scriptures they had were the OT, so the Scriptures that testify of Jesus are the OT and He can be found in them.

But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”

Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.

If you notice...all Jesus was saying was that God was his father, and they threw in the part about that that made him equal to God. Also he was also not a breaker of the Sabbath...they also conjectured that...in other scriptures they said he was a glutton and a drunkard ...

heathen

I think Deputy Dog is concluding that since the phrase first born is used symbolically in some cases that it therefore is a conclusion that it applies everywhere we see the phrase . I will believe what I want if you don't mind and I don't mind discussing it even tho we may not agree . I've been educated on some things on this board and certainly don't claim infallibility . I think I have supplied ample evidence to support my belief even tho I really didn't take too much time there .

peacefulpete

The Great Angel: A Study of Israel's Second God

Deputy Dog

heathen

The apostles also wrote that jesus was the first born of all creation , showing that he was created . That's one thing the WTBTS did have correct

Do you also believe this is an honest rendering of Colossians 1?

Col 1:15

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. 17 Also, he is before all [other] things and by means of him all [other] things were made to exist, 18 and he is the head of the body, the congregation. He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that he might become the one who is first in all things; 19 because [God] saw good for all fullness to dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile again to himself all [other] things by making peace through the blood [he shed] on the torture stake, no matter whether they are the things upon the earth or the things in the heavens.

I think Deputy Dog is concluding that since the phrase first born is used symbolically in some cases that it therefore is a conclusion that it applies everywhere we see the phrase

The question here is not about a phrase, it's about the word "firstborn". It must be symbolic here. This passage is not talking about the birth of Christ, it is not talking about birth at all, nor is it talking about the order of creation. Somehow you have concluded that firstborn means created first. The only thing that would suggest the order of creation is when the WTBTS adds the word "other". In other words, the word "other" is the only thing that would make Him part of the creation.

You also have another problem in verse 18. According to the bible Jesus was not the first person to have been raised from the dead. Yet the bible calls Him the "firstborn" from the dead, and uses this as a "symbol" of Him being "preeminent" in all things.

I will believe what I want if you don't mind and I don't mind discussing it even tho we may not agree .

I have no problem with that statement. Just know that the WT is twisting the truth

D Dog

Honesty

Maybe someone that denies Christ's diety could explain the following:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Matt 28:19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

John 20:28 Thomas responded to Him, “My Lord and my God!”

Acts 7:59-60 They were stoning Stephen as he called out: “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!” Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not charge them with this sin!” And saying this, he fell asleep .

heathen

Jesus was not the first resurrected person but the first one resurrected to live in heaven . The other people were resurrected to live on earth and eventually died again but jesus was resurrected an angel and was given a name above all creation . Well if there is a trinity then how can you explain the part where stephen says he sees jesus sitting at the right hand of God? Then there is John 20:17 he talks about ascending to the father that he talked about so much in his ministry . I just don't see a trinity doctrine but I do see some scripture that was mistranslated.

Narkissos

What are you talking about? I think we agree on this. Are you saying that when the bible says "angel of the Lord" it doesn't mean "angel of the Lord"?

I probably misunderstood your post, never mind.

Deputy Dog

Heathen

jesus was resurrected an angel

Who told you that? The WT?

The bible says:

1Ti 2:5

For God is one, and there is one Mediator of God and of men, the Man Christ Jesus,

D Dog

Deputy Dog

Nark

I probably misunderstood your post, never mind.

Sorry if I misled you.

D Dog

heathen

The bible tells me jesus was an angel after his resurrection . Remember he kept appearing and disappearing walking thru doors ........... That would be quite a feet for a human .

Angel of the Lord

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