Relationship with God

dozy

Just a general question , really.

I'm an active witness who is questioning & researching - unsure of any conclusions yet. I've spoken to a couple of former apostates who have been reinstated as to why they returned (as I know that very few do) and the summary of their conclusions is given below. I would appreciate your comments.

...Essentially they had a strong relationship with God and felt that this was the paramount purpose in life. Although they left and associated with other ex-witnesses, even going to some gatherings , they found that most had left any form of religion or belief behind and became interested in a "wordly life" ie having a good time , hobbies , career , education etc. The language and morals of many (though by no means not all) had deteriorated. Although some had "found Jesus" , none of them had maintained any relationship with the Creator and many even had atheistic and / or agnostic feelings.

My friends decided , after a few years of this , that despite their misgivings , a true relationship with a Creator could only be found within worship in accord with Jehovah's witnesses and decided to restore their position. This took a tremendous effort , as you can imagine. They are now in good standing and doing very well , happier than ever before.

I've read a few of your disassociation letters which often include phrases like "I still love Jehovah" and equivalent. Have any of you managed to maintain a strong relationship with the Creator (whom you may or may not still call Jehovah , Yahweh or similar) externally from Jehovah's witnesses. If so , how?

bikerchic

Hello dozy!

It's good that you are questioning your faith/religion. One of the things I remember studying in the Live Forever ™ book is that we should question our religion..........that works up until you get dunked as a JW then to question is blasphemy and can lead to a JC and DFing for apostasy. Go figure!

Have any of you managed to maintain a strong relationship with the Creator (whom you may or may not still call Jehovah , Yahweh or similar) externally from Jehovah's witnesses. If so , how?

To have a relationship with someone it involves communication doesn't it? Many, many, many years I prayed to Jehovah and never once could I say with absolute certainty he spoke directly to me in a way that I would know he heard me. So as a strong JW I never had a relationship with the Creator/Jehovah/God because it takes communication.

Even his written word aka: The Bible let me down with it's mysterious utterations and not being consistent throughout. Too many ways to decipher the prophecies, too many contradictions, way too confusing for me. I would think, d'oh (there I go thinking again)......that if the Creator/Jehovah/God wanted me to absolutely understand his written word it would be written simpler, I am after all made in his image and he does want me to worship him, right? Well then make it simple stupid, oops, my bad.

After some research on my own of other religious writings IE; Bhagavad-Gita, The Koran, The Vedas, The Tao Te Ching and others, my conclusion is that if there is a grand creator he is content with me living my life in harmony with his creation the earth. He must be because he's not said otherwise.

I am happy and content to believe in a Prime Cause and to live my life in harmony with the earth striving to leave it a better place than it was when I arrived on it. I have no need to worship anyone or anything, no need to pray to anyone or anything. Life is good!

diamondblue1974

...Essentially they had a strong relationship with God and felt that this was the paramount purpose in life. Although they left and associated with other ex-witnesses, even going to some gatherings , they found that most had left any form of religion or belief behind and became interested in a "wordly life" ie having a good time , hobbies , career , education etc. The language and morals of many (though by no means not all) had deteriorated. Although some had "found Jesus" , none of them had maintained any relationship with the Creator and many even had atheistic and / or agnostic feelings.

My view personally is that these people were not mentally free of their history as Jehovahs Witnesses; whilst inside you are taught that personal pursuits are wrong and that nothing else matters other than spirituality; this is wrong, there is absolutely nothing wrong with personal pursuits but a balance must be struck, such a balance I dont believe exists within the WTBTS.

The fact that these people wanted to return to a life where they have to sacrifice their 'worldly life' is testament to the fact that there were never free in the first place.

Since leaving my life as a Jehovahs Witness I confess I have never been more spiritual; spirituality to JWs is always about performance and it is refreshing to find that this isnt the case.

I do respect your position and your beliefs or at least your right to believe what you want to believe but my advice is to continue in your research; develop a critical eye for information management and circular reasonings; dont just research biased publications from one source...consider them all. Then form your opinion.

DB74

diamondblue1974

Oh yes...I almost forgot....Welcome to the forum

dozy

Thanks for your reply , Diamond.

I can't speak for the couple who returned but as far as living an enjoyable life is concerned , I've never heard "personal pursuits" being described as wrong , simply a need to keep them in balance. I've got a few hobbies and interests and will be sitting with a couple of beers & mates watching the Chelsea match tonight.

I do feel personally that prayers I have given have been answered although I agree that it is often intangible & difficult to establish for sure.

For me , the primary aim is to do what Jesus said was the greatest commandment "Love Jh your God with your whole soul ..." and whether this can be accomplished outwith Jehovah's witnesses.

moggy lover

Hi, Dozy and welcome to the forum. Your question is a valid one and needs to be adressed in a full, and I hope, a spiritually satisfying way.

Oddly enough, many feel comfortable with the structured and ordered way of life offered by the WTS. In this system one knows where everything is, because everything has it's place. For instance you know exactly what you are going to do Sunday morning without any need for thought. And in this way, all things going well, one can even allow a feeling of spiritual warmth to permeate the soul. But this condition is only predicated on all things going well. Which includes the supression of even a modicum of curiosity.

Suppose, just suppose you DID have a question. Remember that the WTS exists in a paradox. On the one hand, they display themselves as an open and free society, yet on the other they are in reality a closed and fortified one. They neither invite nor encourage scrutiny. The answers they provide, based on systemized explanations, MUST be accepted. No debate is tolerated. The problem is that anything can be "explained" even a flat earth. It is when the "explanation" is non-negotiable, that the trouble starts.

But someone may ask: "Why ask questions? Why not just accept what the Organisation says?"Thats the catch. Those are the people that the WTS is made for. In this way one "finds one place" - and can even, in some way, convince oneself that one is in a "relationship" with God.

However, there are some, who will not abdicate such responsibility to a bunch of secretive, imperious despots who rely on the gullible. We feel that there is a different profession of faith that is more relevant to the needs of the human psyche.

Faith is an indominable quality of the human spirit that is nurtured in devotion, and developed in intangibles. It is not a physical reality that can be measured by any material conceptualization. Submisson of a 10 hr monthly report, reflects, not a devotion to any "god" but an acquiescence to a largely unresponsive system, devoted only to the maintainence of its own authority, and the exacting of its own demands. If one can measure one's relationship to "god" in those terms then one has a niche in the WTS.

Our God is not like that. He does not require, nor does He impose a forced need to pronounce a "name" - though there IS a name that is above every name [and it sure as hell ain't jehovah] - He inhabits a realm that is beyond infinity, farther that the imagination can ever encompass, yet He is as near as an outstretched fingertip. You dont need to read about Him in any tightly controlled, and anonymously written magazine because you can see Him in the beauty of a butterfly's wing, or a child's teardrop.

Everytime you feel your heartbeat for a loved one, you experience the power of God. An inspiring melody, or an awesome sunset are His signature. But - and this is big but - you need to recognize this.

All else is a non essential ingredient of faith. A church. A bunch of pals. In a funny kind of way they tell who, or what, God really is. You [and others] will find buddies like that right here

Cheers

diamondblue1974

MONDAY	TUESDAY	WEDNESDAY

7.30am Days Text with Breakfast.	7.30am Days Text with Breakfast	7.30am Days Text with Breakfast
8am Set off for work	8am set off for work	8am set off for work
9am – 6.30 if I was lucky) Work	9am – 6.30 if I was lucky) Work	9am – 6.30 if I was lucky) Work
7.30pm Dinner	7pm Meeting	7.30pm Dinner
8.30pm Prepare for Tuesday Book Study	8.30pm Home and Dinner if I missed it.	8.30pm Prepare for TMS or talks if assigned.
9.30pm Personal Time	9.30pm Personal Time	9.30pm Personal Time
10.30pm BED	10.30 Bed	10.30 Bed

THURSDAY	FRIDAY	SATURDAY

7.30am Days Text with Breakfast.	7.30am Days Text with Breakfast.	7.30am Days Text with Breakfast
8am Set off for work	8am Set off for work	8.30 set off for Field Ministry
9am – 6.30 if I was lucky) Work	9am – 6.30 if I was lucky) Work	9.30 – 12 Field Ministry
7pm Meeting	7.30pm Dinner	12 – 5pm Chores/Jobs/usual family stuff
9.30pm Home and Dinner if I missed it.	8.30pm Family Study	6pm Dinner with family
10.30pm Bed	9.30 Personal Time and Bed whenever.	7pm Prepare Watchtower for Sunday Morning
		8.30pm Personal time and bed whenever
SUNDAY

8am Breakfast and Days Text;
10pm Meeting for Ministry
12pm Home and Lunch
1pm Get ready for meeting
2pm – 4pm Meeting
5pm Dinner
6pm – 10.30 Personal Time

ferret

Welcome. When I stopped praying to Jehovah and started praying to my heavenly Father as Jesus taught I received answers to my prayers and have a relationship with God, been happy for twenty years now.

diamondblue1974

In the post above I have highlighted in red the so called spiritual activities an active JW is supposed to do on a weekly, daily basis; I fail to see how there is much room left for personal pursuits; the talks on the platforms imply that recreation should not come before spiritual matters but where in an average timetable do you get the opportunity for personal pursuits.

Its even worse when you have children; its even worse when you have to juggle two jobs; its even worse when you are forced into going on the ministry a couple of times in the week also!

I dont just see the balance at all.

DB74

AlmostAtheist

Hey dozy,

Wow, you've got a balanced topic going here. I loved your approach to it. I'm going to be following this one.

I'm one of those that found atheism more appealing, but that came first for me. Once I became an atheist, leaving the Watchtower was a no-brainer. But many, many others have maintained a strong relationship with their god. My wife left the Watchtower, played around in Christianity, and finally settled into paganism. She's currently on a Native American/shamanistic path.

I'm not comfortable describing my morals or language as "deteriorated", though that's how a JW would describe them. Not having a god dictating my morals to me has required me to forge my own. My "golden rule" is don't hurt anybody, and don't let anybody hurt me. My "silver rule" is help when I can. My "bronze rule" is be happy. So I tend to stamp as OK those things that make me happy, help other people be happy, and don't hurt anyone. I can't see those as "low" morals.

Again, great topic!

Dave

Relationship with God

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