Relationship with God (page 3)

LittleToe

Dozy:

I suspect that ex-JWs who go down this road are simply exchanging their belief in a Creator and his firstborn son to a devotion and worship of Jesus , to the exclusion of his father.

Upon what do you base that "suspicion"?

kid-A

Dozy

Welcome to the board, you seem like a balanced and open minded person. But I have to ask, because I have not yet received a satisfactory answer regarding this,

Do you agree or disagree with what the watchtower says about associating with apostates? If you disagree, then I would suggest you dont really accept

everything about the "truth"? Right? Most of us here would fall into that category. Im glad you're here, but I am honestly curious as to how active JWs who

really still believe the watchtower reconcile associating here with avowed apostates? Cheers,

carla

*** Aid to Bible Understanding Book, 1971 Edition, Pages 1060-1061 ***

"Lying generally involves saying something false to a person who is entitled to know the truth and doing so with the intent to deceive or to injure him or another person"

"While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it."

My question is with the above definition by the wt of lying, why do you think YOU are worthy of any truth from an current jw? If I tell someone something, truth or not, what will happen to me in normal society? nothing. They may think I am an idiot or nuts but I will not lose my family and friends for giving an opinion on any given subject. Does that hold true in the society? No. Should you at a meeting or in a private conversation say anything that does not jive with current 'truth', you can and will be df'd if word gets around that you may hold a different view.

I think you do not really understand what people mean when they say they have a 'relationship' with Christ. You sound to me as you still hold to what the society teaches about Christians. Maybe some real research (not with any wt literature) would be helpful in understanding Christianity. There are many, many ex jw's who have found Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. I know my jw does not even understand that sentence, simply cannot comprehend what that means. If you hold that God supposedly chose the jw's to have some sort of exclusive relationship with, then maybe you should seek to find out why? When this occured in 1914 what were the jw's (bible students) teaching then? Why would Jesus chose them and them alone? How exactly does God communicate with the gov. body? Is there any Biblical instances in which this happened in the same way? Or did God use individuals? were they allowed to take a two

carla

oops!

take a two thirds vote to see if they wanted to follow some so called 'new light'? That's how the gb arrives at 'new light', did you know that?I have never met a jw who was really familiar with their own beginings and the teachings involved. I think if any were to take a real look at what the society claimed at that time with now, you would find that there is no way God would ever chose such an organization. Never.

diamondblue1974

Do you agree or disagree with what the watchtower says about associating with apostates? If you disagree, then I would suggest you dont really accept
everything about the "truth"? Right? Most of us here would fall into that category. Im glad you're here, but I am honestly curious as to how active JWs who
really still believe the watchtower reconcile associating here with avowed apostates?

I think his opening statement says exactly what his view is...

I'm an active witness who is questioning & researching -

and quite rightly so, more should question rather than just accept blindly as we did; even if that means exposing themselves to us 'evil apostates'. Its not often we get open minded JWs here and for me personally I think his approach is refreshing!

DB74

AlmostAtheist

Their view of lying - do you know these individuals? I have had many open and honest discussions of the truth with family and associates - it isn't a "gestapo" style organisation - although I will grant you that there are certain people I wouldn't open up with - but isn't that true of everything?

I think the poster is referring to the official JW position that lying is not telling an untruth, but telling an untruth to someone that has the right to know the truth. This leaves you never really knowing if you "have the right to know" or not. Slather onto this the earlier statement about appearances being so important, and you just don't have much basis for believing a JW will give you a straight answer to "questionable" questions.

For instance, assume for a moment that I'm a publisher in the congregation. If I asked the average JW, "Have you gotten back to that return visit?" they would probably either give me an honest answer, or decide not to answer. That's fair.

But if I asked them, "Is there anything about the Watchtower that you disagree with?" they would be more likely to lie. They would be admitting to apostasy, and since I'm not an elder, I don't have the right to know the truth about sins they've committed. Moreover, they would surely be partly on the fence with that disagreement, so they wouldn't want to give the appearance of being an almost-apostate. Not answering the question also risks damaging their appearance. It's very unlikely they would honestly say "Yes". This means there's no way to get a feel for whether or not the congregation agrees with the Watchtower, since they will most likely not tell me.

Does that makes sense? Do I think I'm misrepresenting anything?

Dave

carla

Dave,

That makes sense. I understand all of that. What I pesonally have a difficult time with is how do jw's really trust anybody? How can they have honest discussions about God, Bible, life, whatever when everything that is said could be repeated and held against them with the elders holding their family and friends hostage?

Now, being married to one, how do I know if I am worthy of any truth? How does anyone on the 'outside' trust a jw? Knowing they will lie if in their covoluted thinking they rationalize a wt answer for it? I am not articulating this well. Why should anyone ever trust a jw when they have a policy that lying is ok if it somehow protects the society (even if only not to bring reproach to the society due to jw wrong doing)? Right now, I would not ever hire a jw, I don't feel I could really trust them. Why would I be worthy? First I'm not a jw, secondly, I'm just going to be destroyed anyway.

Steve Lowry

"they found that most had left any form of religion or belief behind and became interested in a "wordly life" ie having a good time , hobbies , career , education etc. The language and morals of many (though by no means not all) had deteriorated. Although some had "found Jesus" , none of them had maintained any relationship with the Creator and many even had atheistic and / or agnostic feelings."

I believe that people will eventually find the way that works for them best. In the beginning, people who leave a demanding religion with all it rules and by-laws like the Watchtower Society, for them there is a certain freedom that I think they experience. I know for me, I felt a great freedom to try all kinds of things (sex, drugs, etc.). But eventually I got past all that and found my way. I accepted Jesus Christ into my life in 1984. You know, I got saved and all that. Over the years I have back slidin' somewhat at times, but I have never been without my relationship with God. In fact, I see His loving hand in my life from day to day. From the beginning I have seen God supply all my needs (post JW). I have seen it over and over and over again. Sometimes I even feel guilty cuz of His provisions for me. I feel bad for Jehovah's Witnesses or any other person belonging to an overpowering and dominating religion, cuz I have a wonderful relationship with my heavenly Father and I don't need and man made religion to assist in that process. I think some folks need the structure and the feeling of belonging to something bigger than they, to make them feel they are pleasing to God. What a pity. It has taken me many years to understand God's love for me, and I still really don't quite comprehend it, to be honest. It was only after I became a father myself that I began to understand His unconditional love for me. This is the way I love my daughter, who is only ten years old. Unconditionally.

Folks, you don’t need the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to know and have a relationship with your heavenly Father. All you need is to accept Him into your life and learn to trust him (as I am still learning) and he will show Himself to you and He will show you how much He loves His creation, you.

dozy

Thanks for your replies.

I am aware that "associating with apostates" is frowned upon but I am researching & interested in your views. As far as JWD is concerned , is basically a case of "cutting through a lot of c**p" and trying to piece together some lines of thought and ideas.

LittleToe

Still hoping you'll let me know why it is that you believe that Christian exJWs have no place for the Father. Every Christian denomination I've encountered prays to the Father and worships Him.

If there's any part of the godhead that gets a bum deal it's the Holy Spirit, as many don't know what to do with Her.

Relationship with God

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