The fallacy of 'spirituality'. (page 5)

proplog2

"Spirit" is a word we should probably expunge from our vocabulary. It was an effort to describe WIGO (what is going on) in terms of entities that are invisible.

Spirituality is derived from Spirit and means "having a concern for or interest in" entities that are invisible.

Matter is what humans saw. Spirit is what they didn't see.

Even the use of the word "law" in science is rooted in invisible entities. Supposedly there is some spirit that wrote the law of gravity etc. I would mark "law" as it is used in science as a word to be eliminated.

Modern science thinks more in terms of "information" as the invisible. Information is truly invisible and weightless. Information involves "relations".

I prefer looking at the world as "information" so I am an "information" person.

Happy are those conscious of their need for "information".

LittleToe

A bit of a NewSpeak (1984) freak, huh?

Reducing our vocablary to scientific concepts would remove the passion of art and philosophy. You can keep your hell, and I'll keep my spirituality, thank you very much!

nicolaou

Nic:
We all have an internal mental map, complete with "here be gold" and "there be dragons". It enables us to function in the real world. God is a significant part of that map for many. What have you replaced that label with?

God was a significant part of my map too Ross. He was the little pointy compass that showed me the way to go so I guess he gave me direction. What have I replaced him with? Well instead of having a map showing me the way to go I now have an uncharted adventure in front of me! It's scary and exciting. I know there's no paradise or heaven waiting for me and while I sometimes regret that loss and fear my own sense of being finite I wouldn't go back even if I could.

I guess I've replace god with reality.

Oh, and you think I'm a zealot? That's a little negative don't you think? I much prefer 'provocateur'!

Dune

I'm somewhere between deism and atheism right now.

I'm ok with people spouting out their beliefs in 'spirituality' and all that good stuff, i just get pissed when they try to make it sound like my life is lacking and that their being 'in touch' with this newly acquired spirituality gives them the right to try give me crappy advice and/or pity me.

Found Jesus, karma, yourself ,paradise, Buddha, chi,Allah, [insert here]? Great, keep it to yourself :-).

proplog2

Little Toe:

Are you talking to me?

You are the one who is talking about maps. What's wrong with "accurate" maps? And as far as passion. By passion do you mean "strong interest"?

Do you think perhaps some people have "strong interest" in science? Some of us have a passion for accurate maps. It is very judgemental to refer to anothers passion as "hell". For some artists "art" is their gate to their own personal hell. I had a friend whom, I believe was schizophrenic. His painting skills were excellent but his art was dark and violent. He had trouble relating to his wife and children when he was painting. I encouraged him to stop painting and instead use music as a creative outlet. He had a couple of really good years while he was learning jazz on the saxaphone. One of his friends told him I was full of s**t and that he should go back to art. He went back to his art. Shortly thereafter he abandoned his family. He was crazy til he died from his own personal neglect.

This is not science. I had a hunch that his "craziness" was tied up in the part of his brain that produced his art. Perhaps switcing medium of expression gave him a sane beach head. But I think art is not neccesarily the gateway to heaven. Science also can be "crazy". Some scientists seem to have disorders on the autistic spectrum.

Language is a tool box of words. Some are worn out. Some were useful at one time but they served a function that doesn't exist anymore. You can turn any heavy tool into a hammer. Which reminds me. I have a corner of my garage with a stack of old bumper jacks I need to throw out.

LittleToe

Nic / Proplog:
I have a passion for science, and have for as long as I can recall. The most recent one, that I've found myself insatiable for, is psychology.

Internal maps are inherent in us all, from hunter-gatherer on to modern man. We can't evade that heritage. Even where we see all life as an adventure (as I do myself), we still use internal reference points on an internal map. We can't evade it because it's the way our brain is wired. Remember that next time you go to the bathroom in the dark, as your evolution has given you that ability. It doesn't just work in the jungle outside our bodies, but is also essential to our internal survival.

We're not so different. I just believe in one more God than the both of you

nicolaou

We're not so different. I just believe in one more God than the both of you

The gap between a belief in one god or a hundred is insignificant when compared to the chasm between a belief that there are no gods or believing that there is one.

I think we really are quite different Ross but that's okay, I love ya anyway.

frankiespeakin

I think spirituality is a funny word that can be used for just about anything, can be a term for just plain wierd acting to god knows what. I guess it is all in the eye of the beholder as to what spirituality really is.

Maybe a person who looks at things with complete disbelief of any belief is spirtuality?

Me I personally think that something is controlling this universe, and perhaps something is controlling that something, and off we go to an infinity of somethings controling something. I have no proof only speculation from what I see as a patern that exist in the material world.

LittleToe

Nic:

I think we really are quite different Ross but that's okay, I love ya anyway.

Maybe you'd like to think that, but that's ok because you're merely a deluded zealot and I forgive you for it and love ya anyway, too

Why do I say that?

We share 99.9% the exact same DNA
We have been raised in the Western world
We have especially been influenced by the Britain culture
We come from the same generation
We were blinded by WTS dogma for decades
We love science and a logical way of thinking
We have our own fair share of irrational beliefs and fears
We seek to reduce our own subset of irrational beliefs and fears
We accept that we are always learning and evolving our opinions
We are outspoken enough to share our current opinions and beliefs

Now, go ahead and tell me the cup is half empty, ya stuffed shirt...

The fallacy of 'spirituality'.

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