Mankind's sufferings who's to blame?

by greendawn 35 Replies latest jw friends

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  tetrapod.sapien

  hey kristyann,

  i don't think you're dumb, at all.

  um, as for your questions, about what would be so hard about accepting a life without meaning, i can't really say that well. but it does freak people out (with unique cases the exception, of course), especially when their lives are in danger, or things are not going so well. it's easy to say: "oh, well, if there is no meaning to the universe, i am cool with that." easy to say, but hard to feel. you know?

  but terry did sort of explain (and holy smokes, SO DID kid-A and daystar), in this thread, and the other one he made up about meaning (lol), why meaning comforts us. i would say again, that meaning comforts us simply because we are pattern seekers, by nature. there is pattern in meaning. and it soothes us. sorry, but i don't really have any better answers.

  anyways, i don't presume that i have right answers (because i don't think they exist), or any contextual questions i have are inherintly better than anyone elses. i am just presenting the other side of the story with the same aggresiveness that the xians present theirs with. and i certainly do not say that a meaningless universe is more comforting than one with meaning, because in my opinion, it's not, though there is a certain liberation to be found in it, indeed. it's a tough road though, and ironically the path of least resistance based on what i can observe about the universe. i'm not trying to make any disciples. just trying to follow the most likely path, of all the paths. and the meaningless one seems like the most likely, and that in itself is refreshing to me.

  and i also see the contradiction in my thoughts too: that a lack of meaning, really is a sort of belief. and an external belief to boot. but that is just what i am trying to get away from, external beliefs about the universe. and this is the path that is taking me there. there is going to be paradox and contradiction in the things i say, because the universe is paradoxical and contradictory itself, imho.

  regarding elves: i do think that the illustration is just as deep as any other explanation. i see it all as relative. relative to me, and relative to you. it's a very post-modernist view i have taken up. god, elves, meaning, really all relative to the person. if 1 billion people believe in jesus, and only 23 believe in elves, i still do not think the jesus explanation is any better than the elvish one. truth/meaning doesn't lie in numbers, because truth doesn't exist, you know what i mean? and at that point, elves=jesus, nirvana, paradise, golden rule, right/wrong, better/worse, black/white, dark grey/light grey.

  curious now, what meaning you have for your existence? i don't believe you have said yet.

  take care,

  TS
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  kristyann

  daystar... of COURSE the thought makes me uncomfortable... but I am not THAT worried about it, because in all honesty, I really do believe that there is meaning to life.

  It's okay if you don't want to agree with me, or even if you want to think I am just a complete fool that is too uncomfortable with the thought so I am deluding myself. That's fine, you can think that. It is probably mind-boggling to you how I could convince myself that anything has meaning... but to me, it's mind-boggling that you could convince yourselves that all of your feelings and emotions and relationships are nothing... they are just the result of the evolution of the human brain. I just don't get it. I mean, I really do question things and doubt things sometimes... but at the end of the day, no matter how I have tried, I just cannot bring myself to believe that everything is really meaningless. It just doesn't match my experience. I wish that I could explain it better, and I feel bad for not being able to. But really... it's okay if you want to call me a moron or you don't agree with me. I will try to figure out a better way of explaining myself... and I appreciate having people to be able to talk to who don't just scream and judge right away... at least, I don't think that you do. I do appreciate it.
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  kristyann

  tetrapod... I posted my last post before I knew you posted yours... so I wasn't ignoring yours or anything.

  The meaning of my existence, I really believe, is to be a loving person and to help other people and in some way or other to serve God. I cannot say that I am entirely comfortable with this idea... because I get really upset sometimes about serving a God that I don't understand and that I think allows a lot of cruel things to go on. I don't know... I am not able to explain myself very well and I wish I could. I am really trying to figure things out right now, and I have been doing a lot of reading and a lot of thinking... maybe taking a public speaking course would benefit me, lol, and then I could explain myself better. I have so many questions and so many thoughts about this topic but I just find it hard to really express myself. It all comes out sounding wrong or dumb. But at the moment, whether I am happy about it or not, I think that I have been created... and that it is the will of the Creator who made me to bring Him some sort of pleasure. So that would be the REASON that I was made... but I don't think that I do a very good job of it, that's for sure.

  Ugh, I am just so confused! I think my biggest obstacle to believing and serving sometimes is the fact that suffering and pain exist... or rather, this frightens me, because then I think that maybe God is not so nice after all.
• 

  daystar

  daystar... of COURSE the thought makes me uncomfortable... but I am not THAT worried about it, because in all honesty, I really do believe that there is meaning to life.

  Ok, but imagine if you really did NOT believe that there is any meaning to life. If that were the case, might not you be moved to create meaning? If not for yourself, for your children? That is basically how it begins.

  if you want to think I am just a complete fool

  Naw, we are all fools, pretending we know things when in reality we cannot. I don't get the feeling you are any more a fool, or moron, than any of the rest of us.

  You've explained yourself fine.
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  tetrapod.sapien

  kristyann,

  i agree with daystar, you explained yourself fine. but OMG! don't take public speaking! i couldn't take anymore of that after the TMS, lol. i advise a creative writing class to help you express those feelings and thoughts you have.

  I think my biggest obstacle to believing and serving sometimes is the fact that suffering and pain exist... or rather, this frightens me, because then I think that maybe God is not so nice after all.

  same here. same here.

  TS
• 

  rimbaudbunuel

  I have been the cause of all of mankind's suffering throughout history.