New Lawsuit: Roe v. Wade for Men

by Elsewhere 79 Replies latest jw friends

  • maxwell
    maxwell

    I read the article and I expect the same outcome that the guy expects. He'll probably lose. But I also hope it gets people to start thinking about the issue. Someone stated something to the effect that childbirth is inherently unequal. Women and even men may want equality to a certain extent, but there are fundamental differences between men and women. There are women who claim to be hardcore feminists who would never approach a man they like but would prefer to be old -fashioned, throw hints and hope that he approaches them. Pregnancy is another area where things will always be unequal unless they figure out a way for a man to carry a child. But I do think these are good issues to be discussed and argued.

    I personally had a vasectomy, but I had to be questioned about what my wife thought along with what I thought before he would go through with it. I've heard of a men with no children being denied a vasectomy and even one guy in Canada being told to go get his girlfriend's permission! Even my wife thought she should be able to say whether I get a vasectomy or not and threatened (though I am not sure how seriously) to sue the doctor who performed it. It seems she would have been perfectly happy with the chance for an "accident".

    While it may be impossible to make this situation perfectly equal for men and women, there are some things that need to be changed. There should be less resistance to vasectomies and the equivalent for women. There certainly shouldn't be any requirement that one has to get the permission of another person even if you are married to that person, let alone a girlfriend or boyfriend. And I find that story about the woman storing sperm in her mouth, outrageous. I've heard other crazy things like women keeping the condom and trying to empty it into themselves later. Men who are tricked should not be hooked for payment. Often that could be hard to prove, but in some cases it is easy.

    I did hear one positive story yesterday (was that here?):

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060307/ap_on_re_eu/europe_frozen_embryos_1

    The woman wanted to use some fertilized embryos after she had broken up with the man without the man's consent. The European Court said no. It just makes me wonder, however, would she have asked for child support if she had been allowed to use the embryos?

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  • Nosferatu
    Nosferatu

    I'm going to get to the root of this problem, and people here are gonna hate me for it...

    Feminazis

    Men have had their power taken away from them through the Feminazi revolution. Men no longer make decisions for themselves. They hand over all their power to the woman.

    Just look at the relationships around you. Who is the one who "wears the pants" in the house? Today, it's not the man, but the woman who makes all the decisions. Men just respond with "yes dear". Today's men have become wimpy and helpless because they've had their power taken away from them through the whole feminazi revolution, and their promotion through society. Men are EXPECTED to put all their power into the hands of the woman.

    Women now make the decisions. She'll also make the decision on whether to use birth control, and whether the man should use birth control. Men are expected to follow orders and obey. If they don't obey, they don't get sex, and they have to put up with a very unhappy woman.

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  • Big Tex
    Big Tex
    Wow! Men! Relax!

    This is not a gender war.

    I am. I'm sorry if you feel I have been fighting. This is, to me, a discussion and nothing more.

    1) Nobody in this day and age, (especailly after knowing what we know about STD's) should be having unprotected sex. (Unless we are talking about a committed relationship with ONE sexual partner) If you don't want to take the necessary steps to protect yourself (even if it reduces pleasure) they dont whine about the outcome.

    That's a nice sentiment, but that also doesn't happen all the time. So what should be the legal ramifications and responsibilities for an unplanned pregnancy? What should happen if the woman wants to give birth but the man doesn't want her to? Or the other way around? What should happen if the man wants the baby and the woman doesn't and wants to abort?

    If both the man and the woman consented and agreed to the act of sex, shouldn't they both consent and agree if an unplanned pregnancy occurs? Is it fair to say both the man and the woman are responsible for birth control?

    2) Responsibility for unborn children starts for both parties at the time of conception.

    Well that's what this case is about, isn't it? Deciding responsibility. It is a woman's body, and if she has the right to choose to terminate the pregnancy or continue it, should a man have the right to choose whether to terminate or continue financial responsibility? Again, if a man does not want the child should he have the legal right to make that choice? If the woman does not want the pregnancy and the man does, should he have the legal right to make that choice?

    If responsibility for the unborn child starts for both parties at the time of conception, shouldn't the man have the legal right for a modicum of input?

    IF that statement were true I would agree, but the reality is that women bare the majority of the responsibility and that is why we have the majority of the decision. Ok, you may have to support the child for the rest of your life, but the mother has to carry it to term, give birth, support the child financially and emotionally, discipline and care for ;him/her for the rest of her life. Not to mention the loss of freedom in her personal life.

    The fact is, pregnancy has a much larger effect on a woman's life than a man's.

    Incorrect. Right now the woman has ALL of the decision and all of the control. The man has zero input into the decision making process and must abide completely and legally by whatever the woman decides. What this case is attempting to decide is whether the man is allowed ANY input whatsoever.

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  • Big Tex
    Big Tex
    But is it fair to say that because a woman doesn't want to have an abortion that the man is freed of all responsibility towards his child?

    That doesn't sound to equal to me

    I don't see anywhere where anyone is proposing forcing a woman to undergo an abortion. I don't know where you got this idea. I would not be in favor of that.

    If it isn't wrong to provide legal rights and legal protection for both the man and the woman, then the man must be allowed to have some input into the process.

    How is that unequal?

    Chris

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  • Krystal
    Krystal

    Well, you are right about the people hating you for it! lol

    I prefer to think that as things are becoming more EQUAL, men are fearful about the fact that they are loosing SOME of their power.

    They are concerned now because they have to consult women in relationships, they can't just do WHATEVER THE HELL THEY WANT.

    God forbid they actually have to please woman to get sex... as if women owe it to them anyways... how dare we actually make them work for it ?

    Men are expected to follow orders and obey.

    I don't expect men to follow orders or obey me, I expect them to take my opinion into consideration. I expect them to please me if they want me to please them. I expect them to be reasonable. I expect them to compromise instead of just riding rough shot over everyone.

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  • Big Tex
    Big Tex
    God forbid they actually have to please woman to get sex... as if women owe it to them anyways... how dare we actually make them work for it ?

    umm ... didn't you say this wasn't a gender war?

    This is less about sex and more about pregnancy.

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  • Krystal
    Krystal
    If both the man and the woman consented and agreed to the act of sex, shouldn't they both consent and agree if an unplanned pregnancy occurs? Is it fair to say both the man and the woman are responsible for birth control?

    No. When a man and a woman have sex, they know what the outcome could be. No matter what precautions you take there is always a remote chance a pregnancy could occur. If you are not prepared for that possibility, then don't have sex.

    It is fair to say that each individual who is having sex is responsible for birth control.

    If an unplanned pregnancy occurs, the woman has no choice but to decide what to do next. She can't just say, well this was unplanned and it is going to wreck my life so I don't want to be part of this. Even if she decides not to keep the baby... there are still huge ramifications with that kind of decision.

    If she decides to give it up, I don't believe it is fair to the woman to give the man the right to make her keep it. It is her body and unless there was a way to extract the embryo and incubate it for the man to keep/raise then that is the womans decision.

    If she decides to keep it, the man cannot make her abort it. (nor should men be granted this "right")

    Ultimetly, no matter what happens, the man has a responsiblity to his unborn child. I mean really, men want to be able to say, "well, your mom wouldn't kill but I don't want you so I am not paying for a thing"

    And we think this is a good idea?

    The idea of granting people rights and freedoms is to protect the innocent and make people responsible for their actions. I don't want to see the law being used to allow people to opt out of their responsibilities!

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  • Krystal
    Krystal
    umm ... didn't you say this wasn't a gender war?

    This is less about sex and more about pregnancy.

    I was resonding to the "Feminazi" comment.

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  • Elsewhere
    Elsewhere
    But is it fair to say that because a woman doesn't want to have an abortion that the man is freed of all responsibility towards his child?

    If a woman can choose to terminate a pregnancy, then a man should have just as much say in the matter.

    Men are tired to being forced to pay for a choice the woman made. You want to carry that fetus to term? Go right ahead, but don't expect the unwilling father to pay for it.

    Can't handle the burden of making the choice? Then don't have sex.

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  • Nosferatu
    Nosferatu
    I prefer to think that as things are becoming more EQUAL, men are fearful about the fact that they are loosing SOME of their power

    I disagree. Most men today (at least in North America) are afraid to exercise their power. They're afraid of offending this beautiful creature and making her unhappy. They become 100% submissive.

    Things are not becoming more equal. We passed that point many years ago. I have no problem with equality, women in the workplace, and all that good stuff, but it was all accomplished years ago by the feminists. They succeeded. There was nothing left to fight once they reached their goals. However, things have shifted too far the other way. Women are taking on the roll that men had before the feminists came into play. Instead of the woman being submissive, it is now the man who is submissive.

    God forbid they actually have to please woman to get sex

    Men have learned FROM WOMEN that to please them, they should be showered with flowers, candy, love poems, and be worshipped for their beauty. All of this has the opposite effect; women DO NOT give men sex in return for these romantic gestures. They get the "let's just be friends" line.

    Gone are the days where a man's masculinity was enough to attract a woman and make her desire to have sex with him. Today's man has been turned into a clueless dumbass, who listens to a woman on how to please her (which doesn't work) and sets aside the condom at her request, because she should be 100% happy all the time.

    I don't expect men to follow orders or obey me, I expect them to take my opinion into consideration

    Although your intentions are good, the rest of society teaches him to obey the woman or he'll be sleeping in the doghouse. He grew up with this conditioning, and it's become part of his personality.

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