New Lawsuit: Roe v. Wade for Men

by Elsewhere 79 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Big Tex

  Specify.

  Tell me what rights and protection a man should have.

  What decisions should he have input on? What would you want the right to do in such a case ?

  Well that's what the case is about.

  If you're asking my opinion, I somewhat open minded about it. I think both sides should have rights, but how far those rights go needs to be determined by a court of law. I will say that I feel very strongly that the rule of law should be that when in doubt the needs of the unborn child supercede those of the man and woman.

  If the man wants the baby but the woman doesn't, should he have any say so in the matter? Yes it's her body but it's his child as well, and if she doesn't want it is it fair to terminate the pregnancy rather than let the father keep the baby? I am uncomfortable with the idea of forcing her to give birth, but I am also uncomfortable with the idea of ending the unborn's life. This is a situation where the needs of the unborn child should override all, in which case the court needs to determine whether the prospective father would be a capable father, has the means and skill to raise the child and so on. Is the prospective mother financially liable for child care? I say no as the prospective father has made his choice.

  If the woman wants the baby but the man doesn't is a little easier in that the woman can carry the pregnancy to full term with or without the man. Is the man financially liable for child care? Ideally he would be. Ideally he would, if not wanting a child, would at least have the decency to give some financial support for the child's care. Should he be compelled to do so? I say such a decision should be decided on an individual basis and circumstances of each of the prospective parents should be taken into consideration. But I do feel rather strongly that the option or prospect be held out that the man is free from paying for the care of the child. I do think there are circumstances in which the man can walk away (such as the woman lied to him about being on the pill, or saved his semen, etc.) or other possibilities that I am just not able to think of right now.

  Where I am coming from is that I feel a man should be given the right to make choices the same as a woman. I'm not talking in absolutes but hopefully an imperfect legal system can help determine not what is best for the man or for the woman but what is best for the child. Ideally both the man and the woman would have the decency and intelligence to do so but this is not an ideal world and sadly that doesn't happen always.

  Now then, my turn. You've said earlier that you think there is nothing wrong with giving legal protection to both sides and yet you very clearly want to keep all control and all decision-making with the woman.

  What legal protection or legal rights would you grant to the man? Realizing that currently he has none.

  Chris
• 

  happyout

  I guess I will add my humble opinion

  I don't think anyone has brought up the situation where men, after their girlfriends become pregnant, decide retroactively that they didn't want a child. This happens quite frequently, and leaves the woman in a precarious situation. What would be the "fair" decision in this situation? Or what about the guys who find another girlfriend, and decide not to support the child they initially said they wanted? It's hard to determine what the initial understanding between the parties was.

  Laws are supposedly designed to create "equality" but the truth is, this situation is not equal, and therefore, no laws could really make it so. I agree, it's not fair for a man who has been "tricked" into a pregnancy to have to support a child for 18 years, but there are SO many ways of preventing this! I don't want to hear the tired old argument that condoms make sex less satisfying, there are many varieties, and wearing one doesn't seem to stop most men from reaching ejaculation, so it must be ok. And if you think taking a pill on a daily basis that has been proven to have health risks is a walk in the park, you aren't thinking straight. Foam and those other things are messy, and kinda icky to be honest. I remember an article where a pharmaceutical company was working on a "male" birth control pill, but most men polled rejected the idea of taking such a thing.

  Yes, there are women who "trick" men into having babies, and there should be repercussions from this act. The woman who "saved" the man's sperm should NEVER have been given support, that was just stupid. However, in most cases the issue becomes credibility. How do you determine if the man has simply developed "cold feet" and is accusing the woman unjustly?

  Unfortunately, there are no easy answers, which is what makes this such a dilemna. I think in the final analysis, however, the interests of the child should come first, and the bottom line is both parties pay a price. For the male, it is generally money via child support, but for the woman, it's raising a child with all that entails. She is generally most responsible for feeding, clothing, day to day stuff, and that is a heavy burden.

  In .

  Happyout
• 

  upside/down

  "Stupid is as stupid does."- Forrest Gump

  u/d
• 

  Nosferatu

  This is the only "option" men currently have:

  http://www.canlaw.com/legalforms/paternitykit.htm

  Good luck getting the woman to sign it.
• 

  SWALKER

  I think that some guys posting on this thread are not mature enough to be having sex. Period.

  If you're a man and you and whoever has a child step up to the plate and be a DAD. Period.

  It's not the child's fault and should not be made to suffer because of 2 inconsiderate adults.

  Everyone here knows how sex works...the fetus is in the woman and therefore SHE has control over her body.

  Guys have so much already on their side legally, physically, etc. just GET OVER IT!

  If it was the man who carried the child, there wouldn't even be a debate!

  There is a price to pay to get into an amusement park, sometimes you get a discount and other times you have to pay the full admission price.

  Swalker
• 

  skeeter1

  I think that both men and women are both emotionally and financially tied to a child. But, all too often where the man doesn't have the monetary or mental capabilities, he usually runs away. Where the woman is lacking in monetary capabilities, she sticks it out. Why? Mothers are usually bonded to their children.
  
  Why didn't they use protection? Why did they hop into bed with someone who they were not committed to? Provided neither is a physically or mentally abusive individual, I think both have a right and a responsibility to make decisions to further the interests of the child. If they can not, then the law does try to make it equal. Paternal fathers have to support their children (and it's usually based on income levels)- but they turn into deadbeat dads too often. As any divorced parent knows, child support has NOTHING to do with visitation rights. Even if fathers are broke or are not paying, they CAN see their child. But, fathers with past due support obligations run away from the children. Perhaps the fathers are too embarrassed & can not show their face (or drive their new truck to take the kids to the father's new house with his new wife) to pick up the child who ate "beans" the night before, slept without air conditioning the night before, listening to their mother cry about where the next rent/day care check was going to come from. If we tied some of the professional licenses & driver's license to child support - we'd see more men paying. If a man pays, he has his "ego" and will show his face more often to the kid.

  On the other hand, I know men in tears when they find out their ex-woman has a new man who will be acting as the parent to their children. The hurt . . . pain is unsurmountable.
  I think this is a sick world, where our laws give more protection to an eagle's nest, then to a developing human or a growing child. Too many abortions used as contraception. Many women have abortions, not because they do not love that child, but because they know the financial & lifestyle hardship they will endure alone, without the help of the father. Too many absent parents, too many deadbeat dads.
  In France, the State puts its money towards single mothers. Ever see a single US mom be a "stay at home" mom with her kids? Women's equality was great for some things, but sucks for others.
  
  Skeeter
• 

  DigitalFokus

  Ok, wow. I have read some posts here that are so onesided. Before I go into what I am imagining with be a very long post, I will drop a few opinions of mine.

  I am very very very very sick of women labeling men as stupid, mindless, oh so fucking lucky, irresponsible, unloving assholes. Get the fuck over it. We are not all like that. I know of a few women who use abortion as birth control. Almost the most disgusting thing I have ever heard of. If we are so bad, become a lesbian and leave us the fuck alone.

  "True" Deadbeat dads are classified in the catagory as above mentioned females. Says EVERYTHING about that guys heart. F all of them. Its your fault that Men who try get f*cked.

  I have had sex a few times. And am pretty sure that it involved 2 people. Sometimes one :). A woman has just as much control if not more than a man does. Regardless, if you can bump uglies. YOUR both at fault if that results in a prego.

  Don't you love it that you can kill an unborn child who is the result of a rape but not the rapest. Boy, that makes sense. personA punches personB so lets punch personC in retailation.

  ok, I am sure i missed some of the points I wanted to make in the above rants but oh well.

  Ok I have a 4 year old as a result of an unplanned pregnancy. I was no where near ready for this. It has DRAMATICALLYchanged my life. And in a lot of ways, mainly finacially, they have been negitive. Know what though. I wouldn't give him up for all the money in the world. My mother, who is in need of serious mental help (jk love you mom) after raising my brothers and I on her own, asks me one day "would you jump into a pit of alligators to save your son?" Any parent here doesn't have to think about that answer.

  That off the wall question really made me realize what being a parent is all about. And thats the child. They come first. Any sacrifice is worth it for my boy, and its worth it if it helps him in the littlest way become a better person. Anyway my point is that I love my son with all my heart and can not imagine not having him.

  That being said. I will share a tidbit of my story that I think ties into this thread perfectly.

  I became a father because of a one night stand. We were dumb and were not carefull enough. I knew the woman. We worked together. were from the same small town, she knew my family a little but she KNEW OF THE THEM. So we bump the good ole uglies and shortly afterward and having nothing to do with our sexual encounter I ended up moving 2 hours away. I had no idea whatsoever that she was pregnant.

  I found out that I was a father via letter, FROM THE STATE! He was 5 months old when I recieved that lovely, large manilla envelope that changed my life. She couldn't play that "oh i didn't know where you were" card. She could have went to my employer and asked them to give her the number. THEY WOULD HAVE GIVEN IT TO HER. Or just simply drove to my parents place and got a hold of me. But no, not until the state got sick of paying the bills.They choose to find me. NOT her. And because of legalities and plain common sense we had a blood test done. another 2 months go by.

  Where were my rights? I was screwed out of being at my only child's birth and first 7 months of life and the one of the first statements i get was to start saving because I have to pay back support for all that time i didn't know! Life is not fair, I know this but come on!

  So if you know anything about the child support you know that the courts move at glacier speeds. So 11 months after he is born my child support starts and is back dated through out the pregnancy to then. Thats one big bill considering it was set at 700 a month plus expenses. Nevermind the 7% intrest the state tacks on for "loaning" me that money.

  The next 3 years are full of working my ass off to pay CS and then trying to find time when I am not working to get to see my boy. I am not perfect so I can not say that every spare moment I was rushing down to see him. I tried gettin my ducks in a row so I could provide a stable father for him. I tried going to school but could working the 3 jobs and school full time and see him so I droped out. I hope i get a chance to go back soon.

  You know what, I work my butt off to pay my support because the whole "a dollar short a day late" rule applies here. I haven't always been able to pay the full amount so I get my license pulled every time i am late. Great, so I can't drive to work or see my kid. That makes a ton of sense. That will help me pay my support not to mention strengthen my relationship with junior. You know what its like going in to pay a fine for "not paying child support"? Oh it doesn't say that its set uber high and I was only short 50 bucks does it? nope. I have been labeled a deadbeat dad by default.

  I am so very sick of that bs. I work my rearend off (as anyone from thoms chat can attend to) and get no breaks. Screw all this. In 9 days I will be living very close to my boy and am going to see him all the time. I am moving to a shit hole little town where I will not make very much but I don't care. Call me a deadbeat if you want to. But I am goign to spend every second I can with him. I don't know if i will make enough to pay my bills and pay CS too. CS comes first though, right out of muh check. None of that matters, I am going to be there for the little guy and he is going to get teh pops I didn't.

  Moral: Guys do not have it easy. And some of us love our children and will do anything for them. We deserve some rights too. It takes 2 to tango.

  I personally do not think that either person should have a opt out. You made the child. Now step up and take care and love that kid! or GET FIXED

  Sorry if this is jumbled or hard to read. It is 530 in the morning and get done at 8am and I am working a double shift..again. and have to be back at work at 1pm.....lovely.

  **sorry for bad grammer** **actually I am not sorry :-P** Your mostly adults...deal with it.

  Oh and btw, when i have sex now. I make sure she is on the pill, wearing a diaphram, uses spermicidal foam and i wear a condom..when its time, i pull out leap from the bed then run out of the room thru the front door and down the street and drop my deposit into a can of gas and light a match. Then, I run back with limpy waggin in the wind and grab the lucky girl and drive her to the drug store, steering clear of the still burning can of man batter, and buy 4 bottles of the morning after pill and force feed her all the contents..including the plastic bottles. Then drive home to my sperm voodoo dolls and start stabbin those little bastards while I cry myself to sleep.

  Df OUT
• 

  SWALKER

  Oh and btw, when i have sex now. I make sure she is on the pill, wearing a diaphram, uses spermicidal foam and i wear a condom..when its time, i pull out leap from the bed then run out of the room thru the front door and down the street and drop my deposit into a can of gas and light a match. Then, I run back with limpy waggin in the wind and grab the lucky girl and drive her to the drug store, steering clear of the still burning can of man batter, and buy 4 bottles of the morning after pill and force feed her all the contents..including the plastic bottles. Then drive home to my sperm voodoo dolls and start stabbin those little bastards while I cry myself to sleep.

  LMAO!!! This is a SMART MAN!!!

  All of us probably have stories to tell...I found myself pregnant and I was taking the Pill.. Abortion was not an option nor even considered. Yes, I gave up a lot of things in life that I could have done/had, but guess what? This precious little bundle did more to GIVE me a life than anything else ever could have. He's 30 yrs old and I count my blessings every day that this wonderful man is in my life. Having him is like having the sun shine every day. I don't know if I would be here today if not for him in my life.

  I never planned on having children!!! It wasn't my goal in life to even have any kids, but when I did, I adjusted and stepped right up to being the best Mom that I could.

  And yes, I'd throw myself in the alligator pond and get run over by a semi and endure the worst tortures on earth...well, you get the picture!

  Swalker
• 

  damselfly

  Obviously this is a very heated topic and some posters here have personal experiences with it.

  Both should have the right to choose what their reactions and next steps should be following an unplanned pregnancy. ( or unplanned by one involved )

  My question is doesn't terminating parental rights negate any financial responsibilty? Would this not be a choice for someone not willing to be a mother or father?

  I think men's chice of birth control really sucks and more options should be available to them.

  Dams
• 

  Elsewhere

  Now step up and take care and love that kid! or GET FIXED

  I've always wondered why it is described as being "fixed"... when you stop and think about it, it seems like "broken" would be a better description.