Was Jesus sacrifice really a sacrifice? (page 2)

sir82

The notion of "sacrifice" was just one among many models of interpretation of Jesus' death in early Christianity.

Interesting.

Do you have any suggested reading material to learn more about this?

BlessedStar

Jesus' sacrifice was an AWESOME one.

But He rose from the dead and ascended into heaven. There were witnesses.

By the way people still do blood sacrifices with animals but nothing can compare with Jesus'.

He came to set us free from sin. And free shall we be if we accept Him in His Glory and Grace.

BlessedStar

Narkissos

sir,

As to the NT interpretations of the whole "event" (including death and resurrection), I already posted the following list, fwiw:

Condemnation and vindication of the righteous Mc 14—16//; Ac 2.24,32; 3.13ss; 4.10s; 5.30; 7.52; 8.32s; 10.38ss
Testing and qualification of the ultimate high priest Hé 5.7ss; 12.1ss
– Access to the right hand of God Mc 14.62//; Ac 2.33; Hé 1.3,13; 1P 3.22
– Access to the status of Lord Ac 2.32; Rm 14.8; Ph 2.8ss; cf. Mt 28.18
Revelation of the Son Ga 1.16
– Raising and glorifying as the Son of Man Jn 3.14ss; 12.32s; 13.31s; 17.1,5
– Constitution of the Son of God Rm 1.3s
Fight against evil, apparent defeat and victory Jn 14.30; 1Co 2.8; Col 2.15; cf. Mc 8.33//; Lc 22.53
Jesus’ will Jn 10.17s; 17.19; cf. Mt 26.53s
God’s will Ac 2.23; 3.17s,21; 4.11,25-28; 8.35; 13.29
According to the Scriptures Mc 14.21,27,49//; Mt 26.54; 27.9s; Lc 22.37; Jn 19.28,31-37; 1Co 15.3s
Strength of weakness, Wisdom of folly 1Co 1.18-25; cf. 2.2; 2Co 13.4; Ga 3.1
Proof of God’s Love Rm 5.6-8; 8.32; 1Jn 4.9ss
Saving death
- For many Mc 10.45; 14.24//
- For all 2Co 5.14ss; 1Tm 2.6
- For his own Jn 10.15
- For sins 1Co 15.3-5,17
– Atoning Sacrifice Rm 3.25s; 1Jn 2.2; 4.10
– Paschal Lamb Jn 1.29,36; 1Co 5.7; 1P 1.18s
– Redemption and liberation Mc 10.45//; 1Co 6.20; 7.23; Ga 3.13; 4.5; 1P 1.18s
– Vicarious punishment and grace 2Co 5.21; Ga 3.13; 1P 2.21-25; 3.18-22
– Condemning sin Rm 8.3; cf. 5.19
– Justifying the sinner Rm 4.24s
– Intercessing for the guilty Rm 8.34; cf. Lc 23.34
Validating the covenant Mc 14.24//; Hé 8; 9.15-20; 10.29; 12.24
Reconciliation 2Co 5.18ss
Founding the Church Ep 1.20-23
Firstfruits of the resurrection Mt 27.51ss; 1Co 15.20; 2Co 5; Col 1.18; 1Th 4.14ss; Ap 1.5

An exampleDie to the old and live to the new Rm 6.1-11
Die to the earthly and live to the heavenly Col 3.1-4
Die to oneself and live to Christ 2Co 5.14ss
Die to oneself and live to others 1Jn 3.16

Only a few of the above "explanations" use a sacrificial metaphor, and they do so in very different (and often mutually exclusive) ways. The whole idea of sacrifice is absent from Jesus' teaching in Matthew for instance (in spite of the ransom saying in 20:28, from Mark 10:45, which is actually a different, non-sacrificial metaphor).

startingover

The whole ransom sacrifice thing never made a bit of sense to me, so I waited on Jehoover. I guess after all these years I finally got an answer, IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE!

gaiagirl

I wonder if Jesus went through any more suffering than the two 'evildoers' who died on either side of him?

dvw

HEY BLESSED STAR. see running man's post above. some sacrifice.

dorayakii

Jesus' sacrifice was an AWESOME one.

Ok, we start off by believing this, just for a place to start... Jesus sacrifice was "awesome"... I can't argue with that. A person willingly giving themselves up to save others is truely an "awesome" act of heroism.

But He rose from the dead and ascended into heaven.

So it ceases to become a sacrifice, because after 3 days he got back what he had before and more... plus he KNEW he was going to get this reward... Maybe if he had been in the dark as to whether or not he was going to live again, THEN it would have been a sacrifice... I wouldn't mind giving up 3 days of my life (but not in such a painful way) if it meant i was going to recieve huge rewards at the end of it.

Coming back to the pain and suffering aspect of it all... what the man Jesus went through (if he really existed as the Bible character) was an horrific experience by most people's standards, and i would not like to have gone through the same. However, it was not a special or elevated form of suffering. One should not let one's emotions over the suffering of one man, cloud the reality of painful existence in the world today. Jesus' suffering was no greater than the amount of suffering that people go through every minute of every hour of every day.

There were witnesses.

Ancient reports of witnesses i'm afraid are not really reliable. Many people of the Muslim, Hindu and other religions "witnessed" things that strengthened their faith, but would you say that that is proof that it actually DID happen? I doubt it.

By the way people still do blood sacrifices with animals but nothing can compare with Jesus'.

What do those animal blood sacrifices achieve except murdering animals for no reason?... and in some cases causing them great pain before slaughtering them?

What does God need with dead animals anyway? Does he smell the "restful odour" of burning/dead flesh and get satisfied? But all joking aside now... how on earth does this so-called ransom work anyway? A ransom is usually a sum paid to a thief to get back what the thief stole. Once the thief has got the ransom in his hands, he doesnt usually give it back in 3 days... and if we're talking about Jehovah being obliged to follow his own law here by agreeing to the ransom, why if he was not allowed to transgress his law by sparing Jesus, is he allowed to sneakily take back the ransom by other illegal means?

He came to set us free from sin. And free shall we be if we accept Him in His Glory and Grace.

What effects of that so called ransom have been seen? Usually, when the ransom money is given, the person being kidnapped is returned... ahaaaa, thats it... i have an explanation... the reason why Jehovah resurrected Jesus, nullifyin the sacrifice, was because even though the price was paid, Satan did not live up to his end of the bargain... Jehovah had to take back the figuative ransom money... It all becomes clear now...

The whole thing smacks of a fairytale... and not a very good one at that...

juni

That thought occured to me at times too, but I never quite verbalized it like you have.

I COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT BETTER, BUT ALWAYS HELD BACK FROM EXPRESSING IT, BECAUSE IT SOUNDS SO BAD. REMEMBER WE WERE TAUGHT THAT JESUS, BEING A FREE MORAL AGENT, COULD'VE CHOSEN TO STAY ON EARTH AND HAVE A FAMILY HIMSELF.

JUNI

Terry

Blood, torture and death. God's plan.

Some plan!

Prehistoric logic.

Medieval madness.

Tribal deity appeasement in reverse.

Bollocks!

Frannie Banannie

I've poured over the scriptures wherein Jesus is quoted and have never found anything in his comments that referred to his death as a sacrifice. I did, however, see a comment he made to the effect that "it is something (he) must do." So it sounds to me that he admitted that it was his duty or his penance for something rather than a sacrifice.

Frannie

Was Jesus sacrifice really a sacrifice?

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