Basic Doctrines

by mystified 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • mystified
    mystified

    I have not read the other posts yet. I'm assuming, before reading, that this an anti-Jehovah's Witness site. I would just like to make a couple of points, and would be interested in responses to them. I will not look up specific Bible verses because, since this site exists, I assume you are all familiar with the Bible. I will look up and quote any verses you should request if you ask for them....just be assured that they are there.

    First, Peter was laughed out of the Roman Senate for stating that Jesus had been resurrected. When you think about it, that is the way Jesus' followers have always been treated....with disrespect.

    Second, in the part in Matthew which describes "the last days," it says that "you will be hated of all nations for my name's sake." Now, I ask you, WHICH nation did that exclude? It excluded none. ALL nations will hate his people. Why? Because they will acknowledge the fact that human governments cannot solve the problems of this earth, and they will hate his people for suggesting that God's government (under the direction of his son, Jesus) can -- and will -- solve all the problems of the world. However, God's Kingdom will have to remove the governments which exist today in order for his government to take over.

    I just heard a statement made -- recently -- by a Christendom clergy member, where he said that "we do not advocate a theocracy." Christendom does not want God's Kingdom to rule (they will lose their political standing). They don't want the problems solved....they just want their recognition.

    Third, (I believe it's in Matthew, but I can look it up if you like), Jesus said that the Scriptures were "written aforetime for our instruction." That, plus the fact that he and his apostles referred to them frequently, gives credibility to the so-called "Old Testament." So, what did Daniel have to say (Daniel 2:44). when he spoke of God's King taking out all of the world kingdoms and establishing his own? Do the world governments want to hear this? Of course not....that's why they ignore it, as do the churches which support world governments.

    OK....I could go on, but any more is a waste of time. This is only the tip of the iceberg. There is much more evidence, but I cannot post it in one message. I'd be interested in hearing whatever excuses are posted in reply to this which do no more than add your own thoughts or dodge the issue of what I just said. Before you do, however, I have one last point to make.

    If you are a member of a church of Christendom, you are well aware that they claim to be Bible-based. However, what I just posted should raise questions. I also have some interesting information from the Catholic Douay version, too. Just no room to post it here.

    Anyway, without interjecting your own thoughts and interpretations, what do you think of what I just posted?

    Best to all.....mystified

  • Spectre
    Spectre

    Yes, it's only the tip of the iceberg.

    Welcome. Enjoy your stay.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Welcome mystified.

    I have not read the other posts yet. I'm assuming, before reading, that this an anti-Jehovah's Witness site.

    Not far off the mark.

    First, Peter was laughed out of the Roman Senate for stating that Jesus had been resurrected.

    Hmm... Paul, before the Athenian Areopagus... according to Acts 17.

    When you think about it, that is the way Jesus' followers have always been treated....with disrespect.

    Always? That's not what the author of Acts suggests. On the contrary he often portrays Roman officials as very respectful of Christians. At least that's the message he tried to communicate.

    Second, in the part in Matthew which describes "the last days," it says that "you will be hated of all nations for my name's sake." Now, I ask you, WHICH nation did that exclude? It excluded none. ALL nations will hate his people.

    Like, the United States, whose Department of State always defends "freedom of worship" for JWs and other cults everywhere in the world when they are supposedly "attacked" or "discriminated"?

    All the rest is well-known WT theology, but the NT uses of "kingdom of heavens/God" hardly fit the WT definition.

  • MerryMagdalene
    MerryMagdalene

    WelcomeBut...

    without interjecting your own thoughts and interpretations, what do you think of what I just posted?

    ...how can I tell you what I think without interjecting my own thoughts

    ~Merry

  • Sad emo
    Sad emo

    Welcome to the board mystified

    Anyway, without interjecting your own thoughts and interpretations, what do you think of what I just posted?

    Errr...how am I supposed to say what I think without interjecting my own thoughts?

    Truly mystified

    Joking aside, as a member of 'Christendom' no your points don't raise any questions for me except maybe the first one - do you seriously think that JW's are the only Christians/followers of Jesus who are treated with disrespect? if so, you are sadly misaken....

  • Celia
    Celia
    I'd be interested in hearing whatever excuses are posted in reply to this which do no more than add your own thoughts or dodge the issue of what I just said. Before you do, however, I have one last point to make.

    If you are a member of a church of Christendom, you are well aware that they claim to be Bible-based. However, what I just posted should raise questions.



    What about those of us who don't believe that the Bible is anything but a book of old stories and legends and fairy tales, written by men with an agenda.... ?

    Narkissos, I loved your answer.

  • Legolas
    Legolas
    MerryMagdalene Re: Basic Doctrines


    Post 2403 of 2403
    since 19-Aug-04



    40 y 11 m 8 d

    WelcomeBut...
    without interjecting your own thoughts and interpretations, what do you think of what I just posted?

    ...how can I tell you what I think without interjecting my own thoughts

    ~Merry

    IP: dzjItHkwyp2CImsX
    Sad emo Re: Basic Doctrines


    Post 889 of 889
    since 18-Jun-05





    Welcome to the board mystified
    Anyway, without interjecting your own thoughts and interpretations, what do you think of what I just posted?

    Errr...how am I supposed to say what I think without interjecting my own thoughts?

    Truly mystified

    Joking aside, as a member of 'Christendom' no your points don't raise any questions for me except maybe the first one - do you seriously think that JW's are the only Christians/followers of Jesus who are treated with disrespect? if so, you are sadly misaken....

    LOL...I guess great minds think alike!

  • Sad emo
    Sad emo

    still trying hard not to think!

  • New Worldly Translation
    New Worldly Translation

    I would post a reply to your evidence but you haven't provided any. The only evidence you have given is evidence of your own faith in the scriptures and of God establishing theoctratic rule on earth.
    Also if it's the same statement I heard recently by a prominent clergyman the context in which he said he didn't advocate a theocracy was that he didn't advocate men setting up a theocracy on behalf of God.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete
    First, Peter was laughed out of the Roman Senate for stating that Jesus had been resurrected. When you think about it, that is the way Jesus' followers have always been treated....with disrespect.



    Does this mean that groups or individuals that are laughed at or disrespected are correct and worthy of respect?

    Second, in the part in Matthew which describes "the last days," it says that "you will be hated of all nations for my name's sake."

    Actually the words are in MARK 13 in the context of an apocalyptic prophecy. The writer of Matthew revised Mark so that the words are in an entirely different setting in chapter 10.

    ALL nations will hate his people. Why? Because they will acknowledge the fact that human governments cannot solve the problems of this earth, and they will hate his people for suggesting that God's government (under the direction of his son, Jesus) can -- and will -- solve all the problems of the world.

    Well actually any state sponsered ban or repression of the JWs or any of the many presecuted religions is the result of the policy makers feeling that the religion is a threat. Sometimes the threat is based upon truthful reports of the divisive and unhealthy characteristics of the religion and sometimes it is the result of disinformation provide by competing religions or political interests. A religion that teaches the destruction of governments and discourages efforts at social and economic improvement is begging to be understood as a threat. All Christians suggest that God will solve the problems of the world.

    I just heard a statement made -- recently -- by a Christendom clergy member, where he said that "we do not advocate a theocracy." Christendom does not want God's Kingdom to rule (they will lose their political standing). They don't want the problems solved....they just want their recognition.

    I'm willing to bet that the clergy you are quoting believed in Democracy. He was well aware of the unhealthy results of unchecked power in the hands of a self exalting religious few. This is what a theocracy is in modern idiom. For example if the JWs all relocated to an island they would be a theocracy.

    Third, (I believe it's in Matthew, but I can look it up if you like), Jesus said that the Scriptures were "written aforetime for our instruction."

    That was Romans 15:4.

    That, plus the fact that he and his apostles referred to them frequently, gives credibility to the so-called "Old Testament."

    If you stick around you will see that a great many discussions revolve around the OT, so we refer to them too.

    So, what did Daniel have to say (Daniel 2:44). when he spoke of God's King taking out all of the world kingdoms and establishing his own? Do the world governments want to hear this? Of course not....that's why they ignore it, as do the churches which support world governments.

    Do you realize that most faiths ancient and modern proclaim a day of coming glory or return to Utopian ideals? What makes this one religion special or worthy of not ignoring?

    OK....I could go on, but any more is a waste of time.

    A great way to waste time is to blindly do without questioning why.

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