Ok are we just talking about dubs or the world, because if you look at it from a world view, there would be a preponderance of men in religion; ie, Hinduism, Islam, Muslim, Scientology, Mormons, Nazism, Orthodox Jews ...And these men do take religion seriously! Some will even kill you over it. Why is it that men don't women to be in positions of power when it comes to religion?
Why do women make up the majority?
by daniel-p 124 Replies latest jw friends
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MsMcDucket
Funkyderek, look up maternalistic tribes and you should find some information regarding tribes with women in the lead role. Here's a little sumthin' sumthin' that I found:
The Asiatic cultures, primarily the Mongoloid culture greatly influenced both European and Middle East cultures.
Early Europe started out as a maternalistic culture as did most of our known world. Maternalism is suggested in their burial rituals that respect women, children and men equally. Some believe that Mesopotamia is the birthplace of paternalism rather than Egypt. The shift from maternalism to paternalism represents the beginning of a caste culture or as some believe a falling from God's grace. Most Europeans believe that Mesopotamia gave Europe three of the notable paternalistic religions, Semitic-Judaism, Roman-Christianity and Semitic Judo-Islamism. Others believe that Egypt is the primary source of these religious beliefs. -
funkyderek
MsMcDucket:
That information's not even vaguely related to the alleged role-reversed "tribe in Africa". A maternalistic culture is not one where men look after children and women hunt. I have never heard of such a culture and would be fascinated to find out how such a rare exception could come about, if indeed it did. I have no dispute with anyone who claims that some cultures respected women more than the Abrahamic religions.
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LDH
FD, for starters you might try watching the series on the Travel Channel or the Discovery Times Channel about societies that have role reversal. These series about Native peoples on every continent seem to demonstrate that as Uncle Bruce would say, "White people rules are for white people." Surely you don't think that every society ever known has lived like we live today?
What, did the comment about whining men hit too close to home?
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funkyderek
LDH:
FD, for starters you might try watching the series on the Travel Channel or the Discovery Times Channel about societies that have role reversal.
I'd love to. Which series? When watching them, did you learn how the men managed to look after the children without the aid of formula milk or breast pumps? Did you learn how the physically weaker women fared in the difficult task of hunting? Was their relative weakness a problem? What about their lower testosterone levels? I'd be fascinated and amazed to learn how and why they overcame the obvious biological obstacles. I don't recall any of the many books I've read on human evolution or anthropology mentioning such notable exceptions, but I must admit I don't always watch the Discovery Channel. So please, don't keep it to yourself. Share what you know with us, and please provide sources.
These series about Native peoples on every continent seem to demonstrate that as Uncle Bruce would say, "White people rules are for white people."
It has to be a race thing with you, doesn't it? Did white people make the rules that only women can bear and nurse children? Did they make the rules that men are larger, stronger and more aggressive than women?
Surely you don't think that every society ever known has lived like we live today?
No, but I think all of them have been subject to the same fundamental biological constraints as we are, and their society and culture will necessarily reflect these constraints. Some of these trends can certainly be overcome in particular exceptional environments, but our own technologically advanced society is probably the first to allow such a complete role reversal (given that most jobs don't require physical strength and men can now nurse). Unless of course, you have evidence that indicates otherwise....
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ballistic
Women are more likely to identify with a religion than men. In the 2001 Census, 17 per cent of men and 13 per cent of women answered ‘none’ to the voluntary question ‘what is your religion?’. Of the major religions, Christianity has the highest proportion of female followers, and Islam the highest proportion of male followers in the UK
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ballistic
I put "other: jedi" by the way.
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LDH
This was the focus of one of the shows.
A place where women rule
All-female Kenyan village points to burgeoning feminism in Africa
http://www.serendipit-e.com/plundered/africa/index.html
If I'm not mistaken, the Masai are one of the tribes in Africa who have historically had 'gender culture' reversal. By the way, "reversal" is a relative term. Clearly, it's only 'reversed' based on our 'norms' --for them it's totally normal. I'm not referring to cross-gender sexuality but only to 'tasks' that would, in our eyes, belong to a specific gender.
I know women, who though they have biologically carried and given birth to a child, shouldn't be allowed within ten feet of the same!
Each society dictates it's own norms, even today we have 'role reversal.' To believe that a father is not capable of nurturing just as much as a mom, I'm not sure I would go tell these guys that! http://www.slowlane.com/ http://www.athomedad.com/
Nature itself tells us that, while not common, the sexes can switch 'standard' roles. Have you seen March of the Penguin? Humans, being more complex animals who have the ability to think and reason, also have the ability to reverse those roles.
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LDH
Which series? 1 When watching them, did you learn how the men managed to look after the children without the aid of formula milk or breast pumps? 2 Did you learn how the physically weaker women fared in the difficult task of hunting? Was their relative weakness a problem? What about their lower testosterone levels? I'd be fascinated and amazed to learn how and why they overcame the obvious biological obstacles. I don't recall any of the many books I've read on human evolution or anthropology mentioning such notable exceptions, but I must admit I don't always watch the Discovery Channel. So please, don't keep it to yourself.
I will try to look for it and see if it runs again this weekend.
1. I imagine it would be easier now with formula. But speaking from experience, you are not 'lashed' to your child just because you're nursing him or her. Even offices have facilities where moms can pump their breast milk and continue their day.
2. Relative weakness. Not if they were using tools, which-- by the way --were created partially to help MEN hunt and kill. Or have you seen many he-men bringing down Cape Water Buffalo with their bare hands? Of course not. Men also have "relative weakness" to the animals they hunt and kill.
It has to be a race thing with you, doesn't it?
sheesh, talk about touchy. I'm referring to a comment UB made with regards to CULTURAL differences that we (modern society) have tried to force on others. Read the thread about polygamy, perhaps you will understand.
No, but I think all of them have been subject to the same fundamental biological constraints as we are, and their society and culture will necessarily reflect these constraints. Some of these trends can certainly be overcome in particular exceptional environments, but our own technologically advanced society is probably the first to allow such a complete role reversal (given that most jobs don't require physical strength and men can now nurse)
I partially agree. Sometimes we are only subject to biological constraints if we know about them and agree to them. I call this 'cultural reinforcement of biological constraints.'
Two examples. 1 On many KH 'quickbuilds' I wanted to help with the carpentry etc, just like I did at home. That was HIGHLY discouraged. Why? So the men could keep it as their exclusive domain. The women were asked to do things like 'cook meals' 2. Years later, when my husband and I hired movers, I didn't feel the men were working fast enough, natch, they were downright slothlike. Since we were paying by the hour, I decided to help out. It was an all day job. Much to my surprise, I was pulled aside by the Owner of the moving company and offered a supervisory job on the spot. The man told me, "You have worked my men into the ground. You can come and work for me and I will pay you good money." Mind you, I lifted boxes and furniture right along with them. And I had on acrylic nails, LOL. Also I'm pretty big physically, almost 6 feet tall.
Now back to the subject at hand, I think women in general are attracted to fundamentalist religions because it gives them a role to play. If they play the role well they are rewarded. In a certain sense, they have got off easy in JW world. They don't have "responsiblities." Many JW men see the vicious cycle that the 'brothers' have and fade away into the sunset.
Lisa
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LDH
PS,
breast pumps
FD, I just wanted to make sure that you knew that in the absence of 1. Formula 2. Breast pumps, there is the time honored tradition of using your own two hands. "Hand Expressing" which always worked best for me anyhow. I've nursed two healthy babies. http://www.lalecheleague.org
Lisa
Double D's Class
<<<------ Look if you don't believe me.