Did Satan lie? (page 3)

Scully

This is one of my favorite debate topics too. You can easily have a JW tied up in knots in no time at all.

Where in this passage does the writer identify the serpent as Satan? That will have the JW scouring the text frenetically, and ultimately unable to prove that it was actually Satan. They just assume that it is because the WTS tells them that it is.
Where did the serpent lie to Eve in this passage? The serpent told Eve she wouldn't die.. that's a lie! Ummmm, but didn't God tell Adam that "in the very day that you eat it, you will die"? And then they didn't die "the very day". So who lied first?
When the serpent tells Eve that her eyes will be opened and she would know good from bad, isn't that exactly what happened? And didn't God then take steps to ensure that Adam and Eve would not be able to take the next step and achieve immortality? He even invented a FLAMING SWORD to prevent Adam and Eve from accessing the Tree of Life. God was the one who wanted them obedient or dead. He couldn't handle the idea that they might actually use the "gift" of Free Will to choose for themselves the kind of life they would have.

The "god" of Genesis is really nothing more than a lying petty tyrant.

jeanniebeanz

I have never met a snake who lied to me.

However, the same cannot be said of the representatives of most 'gods'.

I'd have to say that personal experience is backing the snake as truthful and 'god' as liar.

Jean

google_mE

Where in this passage does the writer identify the serpent as Satan? That will have the JW scouring the text frenetically, and ultimately unable to prove that it was actually Satan. They just assume that it is because the WTS tells them that it is.

"So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan." (Rev. 12:9) Does the new testament count ?

Anyone can reason that God, "Satan", both or neither lied. One can say that God didn't lie, because Adam & Eve "died" in God's eyes, "died spiritually", started dying physically, or were as good as dead starting in that 24hr "day". And the other arguments for God lying and Satan telling the truth have already been mentioned.

If you believe as Jesus did, then you'll believe that Satan lied and God didn't. (John 8:44) I'm sure Satan is labeled a liar not because of what he said, but because his "intent" was not to the good of humans. Technically he didn't lie, but he decieved Eve which resulted in a bad outcome for humans.

-mE

startingover

I'm sure Satan is labeled a liar not because of what he said, but because his "intent" was not to the good of humans.

The serpent said: “You positively will not die. For God knows that in the very day of your eating from it your eyes are bound to be opened and you are bound to be like God, knowing good and bad.”

In what way is knowing good and bad not good for humans? I think his "intent" was good for humans.

undercover

"So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan." (Rev. 12:9) Does the new testament count ?

Nope, the new testament doesn't count. It was written thousands of years later. How would that writer know anymore than what we know based on the writings in Genesis?

One can say that God didn't lie, because Adam & Eve "died" in God's eyes, "died spiritually", started dying physically, or were as good as dead starting in that 24hr "day".

Where exactly in the Genesis account is that? God didn't say they would die "spiritually". He said they would die that day...period. He didn't say they were as good as dead. He said they would die that day...period.

One can add all the ideas and reasonings they want, whether it's mainstream christianity reasoning or JW reasoning, but if you read the story as it is written, don't add anything to it and use common sense and logic, it's obvious who lied and who didn't.

If you believe as Jesus did, then you'll believe that Satan lied and God didn't.

What does Jesus have to do with it? Jesus, who's existance hasn't been proven anymore than God's or Satan's, lived thousands of years later. What he believed or didn't believe isn't relevant to what the story says and how it was recorded.

I'm sure Satan is labeled a liar not because of what he said, but because his "intent" was not to the good of humans. Technically he didn't lie, but he decieved Eve which resulted in a bad outcome for humans.

How exactly did the serpent (not Satan) decieve Eve? He told her she wouldn't die. She didn't. He told her that he eyes would become open. They did. He told her that she would know good from bad. She did. What deception is there in that? God decieved. He told them that they would die if they disobeyed. They didn't die, they were cast out of the garden. That's the lie and the deception. They were decieved into believing that they needed God to live. But they didn't. They continued to live, though not in the garden.

BlessedStar

Satan lied - he is a liar and lies all the time.

Agreed!! Yup Fair i second it again!

BlessedStar

The Bible records that The Garden of Eden is the place where Satan entered into the serpent and subtly tricked Eve. Satan misinformed Eve and turned her against God by enticing her into believing certain doctrines that he wanted to plant into the human race

Disobedient sin is what separates all mankind from God. This, of course, was Satan's plan from the beginning, to lead the human race away from God.

blessedstar

funkyderek

BlessedStar:

The Bible records that The Garden of Eden is the place where Satan entered into the serpent and subtly tricked Eve.

Where exactly does it record that?

Satan misinformed Eve and turned her against God by enticing her into believing certain doctrines that he wanted to plant into the human race

Is that something else the Bible records, or just your interpretation?

Disobedient sin is what separates all mankind from God. This, of course, was Satan's plan from the beginning, to lead the human race away from God.

Again, is this something for which you have evidence - and in this context, even the text of the Bible counts as evidence - or just something you made up?

Say hi to hibie for me!

BlessedStar

Snakes do not talk. This is not some special talking serpent but a name for a person. The place to find out who this person is, is the book of Revelation.

Revelation 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

So now we know who the serpent is, Satan.

blessedstar

undercover

Revelation 12:9

And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Revelation was written thousands of years later. How does that relate to the original story as it was written? How is that the writer of Revelation, a man locked in a prison recording his hallucinations, knows beyond his own imagination that the serpent was Satan?

Did Satan lie?

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