by Gregor 56 Replies latest jw experiences
I don't think is an area where you can attack anyone for the roles they played or didn't play in getting the job done.
Sure I can. I'm "attacking" the WT representatives who led a number of us to believe that they spoke in the "pure language of truth".
Actually, I'm not "attacking". I'm mourning.
Nina
AudeSapere, I'm not finding fault. I'm fully aware of the difference between volunteering and donating. I realize supplies cost money, as do tools. I'm merely expressing my uneasiness at what I personally saw. What was presented to the "brothers" up front was not the same as what was being done behind the scenes. And, if they were always buying their supplies from the same "brother's store", where was the shopping around for the best deal?
Cellist
Cellist wrote: AudeSapere, I'm not finding fault. I'm fully aware of the difference between volunteering and donating. I realize supplies cost money, as do tools. I'm merely expressing my uneasiness at what I personally saw. What was presented to the "brothers" up front was not the same as what was being done behind the scenes. And, if they were always buying their supplies from the same "brother's store", where was the shopping around for the best deal?
Cellist -
My comments were more in reply to Nina's thread, not yours. It seemed that she was getting wound up with the thought that any money at all was paid to anyone for whatever 'line item'.
I realize from your comments in this thread that there were probably a few areas of impropriety where some could have been taking advantage of the program. Bills could very well have been padded, too.
The point I was trying to make is that purchase of materials and components and rental of heavy equipment does not make the entire program corrupt. It also, in and of itself, does not mean that - in the workings of the program - individuals were taken advantage of.
People volunteered to keep the costs down, not to eliminate all building costs.
MOST - can we say at least 99.5% (??) - were not paid or reimbursed for anything.
And, if they were always buying their supplies from the same "brother's store", where was the shopping around for the best deal?
The link for the branch manual was oddly interesting to me - Thank you, Elsewhere!!. I read part of it yesterday. Below is the excerpt that probably applies to 'shopping around'. I do have to agree with you, though that many, many halls used the same 'vendor' when building/remodeling. That's how we see the same chairs everywhere we go, coast-to-coast. I cannot comment on pricing specifics or cronyism. I'm sure it exists. But cannot prove it. And I sincerely doubt that ALL 'witness-friendly' vendors were guilty of cronyism. Surely some if not most were not gouging the local congregations.
From the Branch Manual (Chapter 22-4 & 5) - it's also how I maintain my professional and personal vendors - (and, thankfully, so do my own customers):
31. BUYING WISELY: The one who buys goods or services should remember that he is spending funds provided for the Kingdom work, and therefore he should be desirous of obtaining full value for the money that is spent. Often an item which can be obtained at a cheap price will actually end up costing more in the long run due to excessive waste, short lifespan, frequent time- or production-consuming breakdowns, unavailability of parts, etc. ….
32. When choosing suppliers you should look for those who are well established and will back up their products. Usually this means the items will cost somewhat more, but the extra cost is well worth the investment . Generally it is best to stay with a reliable supplier and not be switching from one to another. Because they can depend on your business, they may be able to effect savings in their purchases which they will pass along in the nature of discounts. And in the event of shortages they will usually give preferential treatment to valued customers who cooperate with them and pay their bills on time. Though it is good to check with other suppliers from time to time in order to check the prices of your present suppliers, it is well to bear in mind that some merchants will artificially lower prices in order to wean away a prospective client from his competitor. Later he will raise his prices again. Generally your present supplier will work out an agreeable price with you if he knows that his price is too high. For the most part it is usually best to keep prices and suppliers as proprietary information and not reveal them to competitors.
Red lettering highlighted by AudeSapere.
Respectfully to all who participated,
We did good work. And we enjoyed it at the time. I think that was the point of this thread.
-Aude.
It seemed that she was getting wound up with the thought that any money at all was paid to anyone for whatever 'line item'.
You're not quite correct on that so I will elaborate:
Quick Builds utilized "unpaid volunteers", or so I thought. It now seems that some volunteers were unpaid while other volunteers received payment for the use of the various equipment and supplies they voluntarily provided as well as payment for the expenses they voluntarily incurred.
Quick Builds also utilized contractors, suppliers, etc. Obviously these are paid.
It's the unpaid volunteers who were entitled to submit requests for reimbursements that I am sad about. It seems a contradiction in terms AND out of line with the information JW's were given at the Hall during meeting parts.
Rank and file JW's do not have access to the Branch Manual. While it may be informative, it doesn't figure into my discussion.
Worked on a couple of them. Also worked on an Assembly hall. Big mistake there. Wasted nearly the entire day trying to be of "some help", but they had too many workers there. (when the call goes out that helpers are needed, say, Saturday, yippee, half the publishers show up so they can avoid field service.)
Felt under-utilized. Handing supplies to "real" contractors when they needed them. (I'm handy in most trades, some wiring, plumbing, drywall, painting, carpentry, etc.) Even was an apprentice bricklayer in my youth. But there I was with the nine year old boys waiting for some brother to ask me to hand him something. Sheeesh! Should of got coffee and an egg-salad sandwich at lunch time and beat it out of there.
Oh well, it's behind me now and a good chuckle at what an "obedient servant" I was.
Onintwo
I helped build the KH I went to for a while. Being a woman, I was told that I could help sweep up nails and hand things to the brothers. Being me, I told them no. Hee-hee!
They looked at me funnily, and I told them I was much stronger than I looked. I proved it by single-handedly carrying large things that it was taking 2 women to do. The men gaped; the women gaped and then glared. I said I was not about to spend the whole weekend doing stuff that they had kids doing. I did actual work. I nailed forms together that were used to shape the cement for curbing; I carried a lot of really heavy stuff. I helped the surveyor line everything up, and he said I was the best assistant he ever had. That really annoyed the "brother" who had been helping him up until I walked over. You could tell he was angry by the look on his face. That made me feel even better.
I've always enjoyed hard work, and building things. So I didn't mind the work. But even then, the attitude towards women grated on my nerves. I was so brainwashed, I didn't say much about it. But I guess I didn't fit the mold for what JW women were supposed to be.
I did get in trouble that weekend, for telling an elder to shut up. LOL!
Yes I worked on many, and one of our favorite songs when no oldies were about? : Van Morrison's Kingdom Hall We young blokes really loved that song lol
I was a bit shocked at first hearing it blare out over the ass hall worksite though cranked up car speakers.
When building Ridgehaven Ass Hall in Adelaide I was a bit sickened by the Overseers constant sniping at "worldy projects with union strife etc.."
Well, I worked on Modbury Heights High School during the day and Ridgehaven at night. These two projects started the very same week in 1976. From start to finish the huge state of the art High School was finished in just under six months were as Ridgehaven took 18 months and was never really finished to proper building standards (roof flashings left off, brickwork you wouldn't trust in a storm etc..).
Photos off the net: Kingdom Hall
So glad to see you
So glad you're here
Come here beside me now
We can clear inhibition away
All inhibitions
Throw them away
And when we dance like this
Like we've never been dancin' before
Chorus:
Oh, they were swingin'
Down at Kingdom Hall
Oh, bells were ringin'
Down at the Kingdom Hall
A choir was singin'
Down at the Kingdom Hall
Hey, liley, liley, liley
Hey, liley, liley, low
Do do do do do do, do
Do do do do do do
Do do do do do do, do
Do do do do do do
Good body music
Brings you right here
Free flowin' motion now
When we're shakin' it out on the floor
Good rockin' music
Down in your shoes
And when we dance like this
Like we've never been dancin' before
Repeat Chorus
Down at the Kingdom Hall
They were havin' a party
They were havin' a ball
Bells were ringing out
And the choir was singin'
Hey, liley, liley, liley
Hey, liley, liley, low
Do do, do do, do do, do do
Sugar was there
Did you see Sugar
Down at the Kingdom Hall
Van Morrison
is there any builder here who would know what the health and safety regulations regarding children on building sites? UK and or USA
i know i had great fun at quick builds when i was a kid, but with all the health and safety rules about now, is it actually legal to have young kids 'helping' on a building site?
I knew a Brother in central Texas that owned a cabinet shop and used all of his facilities to build the cabinets, then stain them
Is that the big shop in Fredricksburg? The one that used to be a hardware store/lumber yard?
All us womenfolk were allowed to do is fix the food and serve it.....
Working on the hall were "Menfolks jobs"...
We did get an honorable mention when they said a prayer thanking Jehovah for the new building...
Snoozy...
ps..we didn't do quick builds then. And we had lots of windows...
