Just read 'Jehovah Unmasked'. Here's what i think of it! (page 3)

lowden

Moomanchu

Not really sure how to take your comment. I think i see your reasoning but i'm not sure about your analogy regarding the atomic bombs dropped on Nagasaki and Hiroshima. The dropping of those bombs on innocent Japanese civilians, in my and many others opinions was a war crime against humanity. One 'A' bomb is bad enough...but not TWO, they were merely guinea pigs. Not a dig against the U.S. because Britain is 'covered' in the blood of innocent people too. The British thousand bomber raid on Dresden perpetrated by the infamous 'Bomber Harris' was a war crime against humanity. That is were the link with Jehovah lies if you want to draw one, a war criminal that has never been brought into judgement...because he's (apparently) untouchable. Just because the Caananites didn't care about their kids (and i doubt that anyway) doesn't excuse god's orders. As for 'damage limitation' which i also think you're alluding to...well Hitler could have used that excuse and maybe even did!

Peace

Lowden

moomanchu

lowden

I'm defending gods reasoning.

In my opinion :

The Israelites fought a just war by destroying a nation that was immoral.

analogy is :

After the bombs Japan knew they could not win.

In the end those bombs definetely saved american lives and maybe

less japanese were killed then would have been killed in a prolonged conventional war.

Jehovahs scorched earth war made most surrounding nations know they could not win.

This defintely saved Israelites lives and might have saved some of the

other nations lives by making them flee or surrender (gibeonites).

Also if you killed only the adult enemies, the children grow up and they might

have a problem with you killing their parents.

It's a grizzily thing to think about killing the children,

but those were crazy days:

tortureous deaths on crosses, human sacrifices

women being treated like dogs all nations had kings (dictators)

who did as they pleased.

It's not a perfect analogy.

lowden

Moomanchu

Am i to presume that you follow Jehovah? If so,are you comfortable worshipping him? You seem to have a very realistic view of the way things worked in that ancient society.

Peace

Lowden

moomanchu

I not sure what you mean by follow him?

am I comfortable worshiping him yes and no.

need to think about it more.

What I have come to accept is that God does

what ever he wants to do.

toreador

The account in Joshua is something that has bothered me for a long time. Interesting post Sword of Jah.

Tor

cosmic

First off I want everyone to understand that I am in way enamored with God, Joe Hober, or the concept of religion in general. I don't think I got hosed any less by the WTS than anyone else here. But I'm a little taken aback by the response to SoJ's rather excellent post. I'm seeing a very reasonable, logical, well presented set of arguments being met with unabashed emotion. Which is a reaction I got rather tired of in my stint with the WTS. Scully, in particular, your answer seems to sum up the replies, "there is no excuse for killing innocent children." And to that statement, all things being equal, you are absolutely 100% correct. As a matter of fact, there is no real reason to kill anybody, regardless of guilt or innocence. However, there is one aspect of the situation that you do not understand. I dare say (although thankfully so) that there is no way you CAN understand, or even begin to begin to understand that most horrible of terms: war. As a past "warrior" I can tell you that there are very damn few absolutes on this planet, but one that most certainly exists is: THERE ARE NO INNOCENTS IN WAR. Sorry, wish there were, yeah, it would be great if it weren't true, but don't hold your breath. In reality, I feel like your anguish is not necessarily for the Caananites as much as it is for all the results of all wars that ever have been, and to that I agree with you. The only hope that we humans can have is to remove that emotion and to realize that until we slip the shackles of belief in some devine entity giving us permission or being the convenient "cause" of it all, we are just going to keep doing it over and over and over. We did it, Scully, nobody else. It was a human killing a human for a human. Period.

hallelujah

I do not agree with Nathaniel Merritt's henotheistic interpretation of the Bible.

I recommend to everyone to read Joseph Wheler "Is it God's Word", from 1926 (I'm trying to find the weblink where you can get the ebook free). Although he was a southerner with a view that the "Aryan" race was the noble race, he still does a brilliant demolition of the bible and it will be useful information for everybody. After having done a little research, below are my thoughts on YHWH.

The actions scripturally attributed to this YHWH elohim are indeed satanic.
YHWH elohim and Satan appear to be one and the same in several verses in La
Biblia, and in other parts of the Bible they keep each others company, such
as in the Book of Job. While most of the actions attributed by the Bible to
YHWH (apart from creation which is alternatively credited to Elohim or to
YY) are indeed satanic and evil, nevertheless both Satan and YHWH gods are
figments of the imagination, a very sick imagination.

The true YHWH gods of the bible reveal themselves in the book of Judges
Chapter 11. There Jephthah promises YHWH that if he is given victory over
the children of Ammon he will certainly make a human sacrifice to YHWH out
of his own household. YHWH being a figment of Jephthah’s own imagination,
does not respond, not even in his imagination. Jephthah gains victory over
the children of Ammon and superstitiously gives YHWH credit. YHWH being but
a conception of Jephthah’s own mind, does not respond. Jephthah hopes for
some form of intervention and sends his daughter away for two months to
grieve. However, unlike the story of Abraham, where the writer of Genesis
gave his YHWH some compassion, and had him call down upon Abraham not to
sacrifice Isaac, the YHWH of Jephthah’s imagination was silent, mute and
compassionless. (I am not talking about some real God here, but the
charectaristics of the YHWH of Jephthah’s imagination). And Jephthah
sacrificed his daughter.

YHWH and Satan do not exist except that we give them existence in our own
imaginations. This is the real YHWH unmasked.

Gill

hallelujah! - Good post.

In the end it boils down to - Jehovah/Satan = Imaginary 'friends'.

The whole OT is a disgraceful account of human suffering caused by their own stupidity and their own 'imaginary friends'. How did the human race get to be so stupid in the first place?

smiddy

Bump

Dis-Member

Rather the point was that children sometimes suffer as a result of what their parents do. Here is an analogy: on September 11th, as those 'planes hurtled towards the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, there were probably some babies and children on board. Those children had not done anything wrong that caused them to be there. But if the American Government had been able to respond fast enough and decisively enough, I am fairly sure they would have shot the planes down before they could be flown into the Pentagon and the World Trade Center.

Does this mean that the American Government condones the killing of babies and children? Surely not. The point is that the threat would have been large enough and serious enough for them to take drastic action, and because of this drastic action, innocent children would have died.

I believe that this is what was going on when the Israelites destroyed the Canaanites. One of the reasons we find it difficult to see it this way is that we do not take seriously enough the evil these nations were doing, or the threat they posed to God's good purposes for the whole world

What utterly ridiculous reasoning.

Just read 'Jehovah Unmasked'. Here's what i think of it!

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