WHO IS JOB?

by GodisRight 21 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Greendawn,

    That story is obviously mythical probably produced to make the Jews believe that observing the law though difficult will bring great rewards while not observing it will bring punishment. It's a myth-parable.

    I feel that is mostly the stance of Job's friends, reflecting the common belief in individual reward and punishment which has become a central feature of official Judaism since the Deuteronomistic movement. That Job, as the hero (or anti-hero), consistently criticises such views in the poetical dialogues, makes the work a highly subversive one. Of course this is partly lost in the prose conclusion which describes Job's restoration. Still, this conclusion gives reason to Job against his friends.

    The way I put it is would someone on a neighbour's advice have his wife tortured to see whether she really loves him when already he knows that she had always been faithful and loving towards him? That would be monstrous.

    This is the view or the prose prologue, which is completely absent from the body of the book (and even the epilogue).

    And whoever wrote Job created a lot of dangerous misconceptions about the way God operates and this book should have been among the non canonical apocrypha.
    Regardless of the issue of canonicity (I would rather consider it a sort of "miracle" that such a subversive book was included in the Jewish canon, probably thanks to its soapy prologue-epilogue), the core of the book raises essential questions about the apories of ethical monotheism. Either God is a ruthless tyrant (Job, in the dialogues) or he is absolutely beyond any moral understanding (Yhwh's discourses). In any case, exit the moral optimism of Deuteronomy and its official lineage (e.g. Chronicles).
  • cosmic
    cosmic

    GIR,

    "11 As you know, we consider blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of Job's perseverance and have seen what the Lord finally brought about. The Lord is full of compassion and mercy. "

    Kuh-rap! That's like a loan shark telling you he's gonna show you mercy " 'cuz I'm only goona break one of your knees."

    It doesn't matter when JOB lived (although he does make some righteous rolling papers), whether he was an Amalikite or a Troglydite, of whether is was pre-post Exodus. The book is a piece of literature, and a damn good one at that. The problem has occurred because of its cannonization and the subsequent empty headed dorks who insist upon having to be literal.

    "And whoever wrote Job created a lot of dangerous misconceptions about the way God operates and this book should have been among the non canonical apocrypha." Greendawn is absolutely correct. It is often amusing and telling to listen to the gyrations and flop flipping that people go thru attempting to explain, justify and, ultimately, apologize for the book JOB.

    From the reasoning of those who point to Job being tested as proof the debbil is wrong, that man CAN keep his "integrity", and that if we wait long enough we'll all get a Hollywood ending ,that would mean that the Romans view of religion was the most correct. The Romans, inheriting (stealing?) from the Greeks, believed that we humans were just toys for the Gods to dick around with, i.e. we are here for their amusmnet. And, as such, we have no real "free will" except in only narrow, predetermined and prescribe ways.

    Here's some questions if JOB is to be taken literally: was Job the first case, or were there a string of failures before him? If Job proved "faithful" (where perfect Adam didn't) then what f*ck is the point of all of the rest of history since then? Why would "God" be such a dickhead as to make a race of people from Abram (who was apparently as wealthy as Job, but with not near the heartaches) when Job seemed certainly to have more qualifications in the "faith" and "integrity" depts?

    Who is Job? We are.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    The "Danel" (dn'l) of Ezekiel is clearly not the "Daniel" (dny'l) of Daniel for the latter was not famous for saving his children from danger (nor did he even have children in any of the Danielic traditions) while the Danel of Canaanite legend was especially famous for trying to redeem his son Aqhat (= Actaeon from Greek myth?) from death. Noah was another figure from the distant past who tried to save his children. As for the reference to "Job" in Ezekiel, this suggests a different version than the canonical prose account in which Job was able to rescue his children from the dead (cf. the LXX ending to Job). The book of Job also bears a number of similarities to the Ugaritic Tale of Aqhat, which I've noted in previous threads. As for Danel, he also appears in the Enochic literature in various guises as an antediluvian figure.

    The way in which an originally non-Jewish tale is adapted is reminiscent of two other examples: (1) The Book of Balaam Son of Beor, discovered in 8th-century BC plaster fragments at Deir 'Alla, tells an older and more polytheistic version of the non-Israelite Balaam tales later incorporated into Numbers, one of which makes Balaam a worshipper of Yahweh, and (2) Ahiqar, a story about an Aramaean vizier to Assyrian kings, was discovered in 6th-century BC Aramaic fragments in the Jewish colony of Elephantine, is far more polytheistic than the later monotheistic Jewish and Christian versions (and the allusions in 4th-century BC Tobit). I would suspect that there circulated in Judah in the time of the prophet Ezekiel a Yahwistic version of the Danel legend, and similarly there may well have an earlier non-Jewish versions of Job which were quite different in character.

  • GodisRight
    GodisRight
    I used Jah's treatment of Job and his children as an illustration of how we should feel about killing our pets and getting a new one to my sister-in-law.

    Job just had some more children and he felt blessed, it didn't matter about the killing of his previous ones. If your pets get sick, just kill them and get some new ones.

    Ken P.

    Was God at fault for the death of Job's family? It seems that killing Job's family as part of the test was all Satan's idea: God didn't tell him to slay Job's family. Satan could have simply burned down Job's home and wiped out his live stock. But Satan took things to the extream and murder Job's servants and killed his children. Did God even know that the result of this test would cost Job his family? It seems to me that Satan intially critized all the wealth that God have given to Job. The conversation speaks of all the "flocks and herds" that were in Job's possession. God told Satan that everything that Job has in now in Satan's hands. Then the Devil took the test to the extream by murdering the man's family.

    9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face 12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."
    Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.

  • GodisRight
    GodisRight
    That story is obviously mythical probably produced to make the Jews believe that observing the law though difficult will bring great rewards while not observing it will bring punishment. It's a myth-parable.

    I see your point, but Job didn't observe the law? The law seems specific to Israel. Did Job didn't celebrate sabbaths, passovers, or God's laws of cleaniness. In my opinion, Job had easier than the Israelites except for the time he was handed over to Satan.

  • GodisRight
    GodisRight
    From the reasoning of those who point to Job being tested as proof the debbil is wrong, that man CAN keep his "integrity", and that if we wait long enough we'll all get a Hollywood ending ,that would mean that the Romans view of religion was the most correct. The Romans, inheriting (stealing?) from the Greeks, believed that we humans were just toys for the Gods to dick around with, i.e. we are here for their amusmnet. And, as such, we have no real "free will" except in only narrow, predetermined and prescribe ways.

    Hmm, one of the apostles said that the idols the nations sacrifice to are demons, not gods. Certainly it was Satan who "dick" around with Job's life as the test was all his idea. The greek gods were demons. Look at what they were doing to people during Jesus day.

  • GodisRight
    GodisRight
    The way in which an originally non-Jewish tale is adapted is reminiscent of two other examples: (1) The Book of Balaam Son of Beor, discovered in 8th-century BC plaster fragments at Deir 'Alla, tells an older and more polytheistic version of the non-Israelite Balaam tales later incorporated into Numbers, one of which makes Balaam a worshipper of Yahweh, and (2) Ahiqar, a story about an Aramaean vizier to Assyrian kings, was discovered in 6th-century BC Aramaic fragments in the Jewish colony of Elephantine, is far more polytheistic than the later monotheistic Jewish and Christian versions (and the allusions in 4th-century BC Tobit). I would suspect that there circulated in Judah in the time of the prophet Ezekiel a Yahwistic version of the Danel legend, and similarly there may well have an earlier non-Jewish versions of Job which were quite different in character.

    This is the first time I have heard of the "Book of Balaam." I want to read it if that is possible. Initially Balaam didn't seem like such a bad guy until he seduced Israel into sinning against God.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    The full text (from the fragments) is published in the Context of Scripture, Vol. 2.

    Here is my thread on the subject:

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/68919/1.ashx

  • gumby
    gumby


    Whoever the hell he was, he shouldn't have been elevated to a man of biblical notoriety. Why....because his wife wasn't in godly subjection since she was a heathen apostate bastard who wanted her hubby to curse god and die so she could collect all the damn insurance money.

    Besides....who wants to snuggle upwith some dude with boils all over his arse that smelled like old socks!

    Gumby

  • Rabbit
    Rabbit
    Yet he is God's greatest servant?

    Well, I would say, "No, I don't think he is at all."

    I think the Lot was the 'greatest,' the Lard God let him get away with having sex with his own daughters. God still blessed him and kept him on as one of his blessed servants -- good ole' boy that he was...

    Job...he did everything right, no incest, yet look at his 'lot' (pun intended).

    One thing you can say for sure...the Lard Gawd is nothing if not inconsistant.

    The whole bible story IS about "not getting between God & Satan..." it's a BETTING game folks. The rules...? They change with the wind.

    We are simply the 'chips'.

    Rabbit

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