1 John 2:27

by TheListener 11 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • TheListener
    TheListener

    1 John 2:27 (NWT): And as for YOU , the anointing that YOU received from him remains in YOU , and YOU do not need anyone to be teaching YOU ; but, as the anointing from him is teaching YOU about all things, and is true and is no lie, and just as it has taught YOU , remain in union with him."

    The WT society states that this refers to Christ's brothers, the 144,000 and that it refers to apostate teachers and not truthful teachers. (Sorry, I don't have my references handy - I can post later or tomorrow).

    I know some use this scripture as one to show how the governing body shouldn't be teaching the FDS.

    Here are the verses preceding 27:

    1 John 2: 18-26 (NWT)" 18 Young children, it is the last hour, and, just as YOU have heard that antichrist is coming, even now there have come to be many antichrists; from which fact we gain the knowledge that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But [they went out] that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort. 20 And YOU have an anointing from the holy one; all of YOU have knowledge. 21 I write YOU , not because YOU do not know the truth, but because YOU know it, and because no lie originates with the truth.

    22 Who is the liar if it is not the one that denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one that denies the Father and the Son. 23 Everyone that denies the Son does not have the Father either. He that confesses the Son has the Father also. 24 As for YOU , let that which YOU have heard from [the] beginning remain in YOU . If that which YOU have heard from [the] beginning remains in YOU , YOU will also abide in union with the Son and in union with the Father. 25 Furthermore, this is the promised thing that he himself promised us, the life everlasting.

    26 These things I write YOU about those who are trying to mislead YOU ."

    ---I can see where John is warning the readers to stay clear of the antichrists and those who would deceive them. If, though, John is warning them away from false teachers I don't see where he is leading them or telling them to listen to accurate or truth teachers. He merely says that "YOU do not need anyone to be teaching you; but, as the anointing from him is teaching YOU about all things, and is true and is no lie, and just as it has taught YOU , remain in union with him."

    But, I checked many commentaries and they seem to agree with the WT view.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    It is central to the logic of early gnostic Christianity that the saving "knowledge" is not externally taught, but instead a direct revelation of the divine within the believer (which does not rule out a communitarian dimension). Accordingly the "teachers" often insist that they are not teaching and they are actually not needed (which of course can also be part of a rhetorical strategy).

    See in 1 John:

    2:13f
    I am writing to you, fathers,
    because you know him who is from the beginning.
    I am writing to you, young people,
    because you have conquered the evil one.
    I write to you, children,
    because you know the Father.
    I write to you, fathers,
    because you know him who is from the beginning.
    I write to you, young people,
    because you are strong
    and the word of God abides in you,
    and you have overcome the evil one.
    2:21
    I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and you know that no lie comes from the truth.

    This attitude (quite the opposite of the Pastorals with their insistance on tradition and sound teaching) is also found in Paul, e.g. 2 Corinthians 1:24:

    I do not mean to imply that we lord it over your faith; rather, we are workers with you for your joy, because you stand firm in the faith.
  • A Paduan
    A Paduan
    But, I checked many commentaries and they seem to agree with the WT view.

    Really ? That "this refers to Christ's brothers, the 144,000" What sources would that be ?

    They may agree, as is plainly stated in v26 that there is reference to those who would decieve, but there is no mention of intention to deceive, or for the need of ones "regular" teachers who might not have this intention.

    The WT view is a self directed extrapolation

    - take heed how you hear, for to him who has more will be given

  • Honesty
    Honesty
    But, I checked many commentaries and they seem to agree with the WT view.

    Pray tell, what WT view would that be?

  • TheListener
    TheListener

    No, no, no, no the commentaries don't agree about the 144,000 stuff. I know that, are you kidding me.

    Some have used this verse (1 John 2:27) to show that the GB shouldn't be teaching the FDS (remaining 144,000 alive on earth) spiritual truths. Because they have no need of teachers, they have God's spirit teaching them. Yes, I know other christian religions, in general, believe that all have this special relationship but I'm dealing specifically with the refutation of a refutation of a WTS teaching. hehehe.

    If a dub heard the argument that the GB shouldn't teach the FDS per 1 John 2:27 and they checked various commentaries they would indeed find that what the WTS articles state on the subject is fairly accurate (sans the 144k part). The context of 1 John 2 appears to be warning the disciples from false teachers or antichrists. It doesn't say that true teachers wouldn't be needed, in fact isn't John himself teaching them, even though the spirit taught them already or as well.

    Using this argument you can't show that true teacher aren't needed and that the holy spirit takes care of all our teaching needs. Therefore you can't show that the GB shouldn't be teaching the FDS.

    Auld Soul, HELP!

  • Frannie Banannie
    Frannie Banannie

    I'm personally very familiar with that particular scripture. The problem that the WTS has with it is that they feel it's A-okay for the GB anointed to be teaching all their followers and fellow meadow muffins anointed, BUT......they accept NO teachings or suggestions or questions or comments from their fellow meadow muffins anointed.

    Frannie

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan
    If a dub heard the argument that the GB shouldn't teach the FDS per 1 John 2:27 and they checked various commentaries they would indeed find that what the WTS articles state on the subject is fairly accurate

    The argument has no weight - they don't believe commentaries on any other matters unless they coincidentally agree with their own preconceptions - additionally, the basis and accuracy of "other commentaries" is only postulative.

    Clearly v26 shows that "those who would decieve" are considered as reference - but that is all - whether there is any intention for deception is not indicated, and the saying "you need no other to teach you" may very well stand on it's own. Indeed it may be considered independent of physical persons - one may consider the sayings of another and certainly not believe and identify with all of them, as you need no one to teach you in discerning that which you hear - should you not then perhaps the letter is not for your address.

    The WT view you present is a physical view of what is and is not - life according to the flesh.

    paduan

  • Star Moore
    Star Moore
    YOU do not need anyone to be teaching YOU ; but, as the anointing from him is teaching YOU about all things, and is true and is no lie, and just as it has taught YOU , remain in union with him."

    How excellent! Thanks..for the scripture...!!!

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    TL,

    "Scripturally" you can "prove" anything => you can really prove nothing. At least this is empirically demonstrable (to some extent).

    If you are up to accept the whole NT as revelation of equal value and (consequently) read some doctrinal consistency into it, you cannot accept the full lesson (!) of the Gnostic-like illuminism underlying the "anointing" (chrisma) doctrine in 1 John because it is all too clear that Christianity does rely on external teaching (plainly and heavily so in Acts or the Pastorals, much more cautiously but nonetheless truly in the Johannine writings).

    It is interesting to analyse how illuminism and dogmatism work and ultimately rely against each other. Every authoritarian church structure (including JWs) is only too glad to celebrate individual illumination as long as it coincides with, and so confirms, the official "orthodoxy" (e.g. the role of "illumination by the Holy Ghost" in Calvinism). Even the WT literature will tell stories of people who felt intuitively attracted to "the Truth," through inner feeling and conviction, factual coincidences, "signs" received in answer to prayer, etc. (even from "non-anointed" members). But as soon as intuition diverges from the official doctrine it is ruled out as "subjective" or "demonic". If you follow it you are "out," or better, you show that you were never really "in". Nowhere such circular reasoning is so plainly and candidly admitted as in Johannine literature, e.g. 1 John 4:1ff:

    Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. And this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming; and now it is already in the world.
    Little children, you are from God, and have conquered them; for the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world; therefore what they say is from the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us, and whoever is not from God does not listen to us. From this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

    Every religion, I guess, requires some coincidence of objective authority and subjective intuition. Although one element can be stressed over the other (e.g. JWs and Quakers at both ends of the spectrum) none can entirely dispense with either.

  • Justin
    Justin


    1 John 2:27 (KJV) - "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

    The issue seems to be: Was this statement about a spiritual anointing, which makes unnecessary the function of learning from external teachers, intended to be taken in an absolute sense? Is there anything in the context which would limit its application? Any church which has an internal teaching ministry would certainly want to limit the application, and if the WTS and some commentaries agree on this point (which has not been demonstrated) it would not be surprising. But to say that it refers to false teachers is quite ambiguous. Certainly, the false teachers are not the spirit-anointed ones being addressed. The writer is not saying sarcastically, "Anything you folks say is right - you're anointed and you don't have to listed to me!" No, the writer considered the readers to be his Christian brothers and sisters. Rather, the false teachers would be the ones he considered to be "antichrists." The anointing was a protection against these antichrists.

    "Little children," he writes, "it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now there are many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time." (1 John 2:18) "But" - in contrast to these - "ye have an unction [anointing] from the Holy One, and ye know all things." (verse 20) "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." (verse 22) "These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you . . ." (verses 26-27) The anointing stands over against the false teaching.

    The author has in mind, not just anyone who denies Jesus, but rather those who deny him in a certain way and teach others so. He has in mind a heresy known as docetism - from the Greek word dokein which means "to seem" and refers to the idea that Jesus only seemed to be a man. Thus, the author later states: "Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world." (1 John 4:2-3) In the second letter of John we also read: "For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist." (verse 7) These teachers, who visited congregations and spoke under inspiration - under the control of a spirit - were teaching that Jesus Christ had not come in the flesh inasmuch as he was not really a fleshly human creature during his earthly life, but merely appeared to be. Now we can better understand the introduction to First John about viewing and handling the "Word of life" (1 John 1:1-4) - the Word actually having become flesh as in the Gospel of John (1:14).

    So the question remains, Does the statement at 1 John 2:27 about the spiritual anointing have a limited application rather than an absolute one? Does it mean that, because the readers are anointed, they don't have to be taught by the docetists? Or does it mean they don't have to be taught by anyone?

    Those who believe that the entire Bible must be taken into consideration on any given subject will certainly compare First John with other passages which indicate that a teaching ministry (within the congregation) is necessary. But even if we do not take this approach, it is not necessary to go far a field to see that the immediate context indicates that the author believed in external teaching. As all three letters of John reflect the same style, and therefore indicate the hand of the same author - or at least the same school or community - they may be considered immediate to this context. Whether the author was actually the aged apostle John or not, he indicates in the third letter that he was sending visiting teachers to the congregations in his area. These teachers would have been the counterparts to the docetists. A certain leader name Diotrophes did not like to have the visiting teachers, and "John" rebukes him: "I write unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not. Wherefore, if I come, I will remember his deeds which he doeth, prating against us with malicious words: and not content therewith, neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbade them that would, and casteth them out of the church." (3 John 9-10) Diotrophes was not simply casting out visitors from another congregation - he was ejecting traveling teachers whose teachings he himself did not appreciate. But the fact that John sent the teachers indicates that he did not expect Christians to solely rely upon their own anointing for inward enlightenment.

    Yet, John did say: 'You have an anointing which teaches you all things.' It may not be a statement to be taken in an absolute sense, it may be limited in its application. But there must be a sphere in which this anointing can operate, and the Society has eliminated that sphere of operation by demanding that its adherents follow the party line in all matters rather than being allowed to hold their own opinions and have thier own thoughts in many areas which could be considered nonessentials. There is no hierarchy of "truths," with only the most fundamental and basic ones being considered nonnegotiable. Everything is under the watchful eye of Big Brother. The anointing from the Holy One will persist in spite of this.

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