Gumby....I would also echo Narkissos' comment and caution against equating "gospel stories" with "literalists"; fully-fledged gnostic myths are themselves examples of storytelling.
No fabrication in Gospels
by Shining One 103 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Narkissos
XJW,
As far as the rest of your post I don't see any mention of conservative scholars. Why is that?
LOL, I haven't mentioned liberal or critical scholars either.
it only appears that you have found a way to affirm your presupposition, and you obviously think there is no need to challenge it. This is intellectual laziness.
Maybe. Or, at some point I felt I had already spent too much time debating with apologists and felt like moving on. Mind you, there is much more to the Bible texts than "whether it happened or not". You can spend your whole life trying to prove either side of the issue. If it takes intellectual laziness to step out of this nonsense, thanks intellectual laziness.
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Forscher
A question. Isn't it believed the gospels were written AFTER the letters? What is the believed date of the first book of the N.T. If it's not a gospel but rather a letter, it would seem a gnostic jesus was believed BEFORE literal Jesus was. I need help, I've forgotten things I've read...lol
As Leo pointed out, some scholars think that Paul's letters came first, before the synoptic gospels. What Leo didn't point out, is that opinion is based mainly on the presence of Prophecies in those gospels which were fufilled so accurately, that those scholars just cannot accept the possibility that they were written before the fact. In fact, beyond rank speculation, that is the only concrete reason they can give. It is also why they dismiss those ancient sources which put the writting of those gospels earlier, such as the one mentioned by Leo, as "not reliable".
I've read Crossan and other scholars of his his ilk as well Leo. So I am familiar with the "higher critics" speculations as well.
Forscher -
zen nudist
from all I have read, both from believers skeptics, psychologists and others...the following seems to be what may have happened:
Paul, a pharisee but a sell out [as he was working for the high priest, a saducess] was tracking down the followers of THE WAY, who seem to be the dead sea scroll cult who preached a TEACHER OF RIGHTEOUSNESS [too bad 100 years older than Jesus], and the coming war of the children of light and darkness.... while in the desert he hallucinated a risen messiah who became the focus of his life after that point, as no one back then knew what an hallucination was and if he were a pagan he would surely have made a religion to whatever "god" had appeared to him...etc.
there was no fraud nor deception when he preached this new view that had litterally knocked him off his ass, so his being CON vi N c ED was very inspiring to those who wanted to be CON vi N c ED themselves. people tend to admire CON fident MEN and follow them because the want be CONfident themselves.... JWs Mormons Baptists, Muslims and others are perfect examples of people who are CON vi N c ED about their beliefs yet not one of them has see the source of their faith, only words have they accepted, yet that is enough for most of them to kill or die in the sure and certain knowledge of their CONvictions....
just like JWs have rumors and stories about marvelous and demonic occurances, peoples of the past no doubt had their own smurf stories. myth making is what the human mind does all the time and the more bizzarre a story the more emotions it can bring and the deeper the memory stains it makes and so it goes.
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greendawn
The remarkable thing is that many early Christians who were inspired by the gospels were willing to face death and torture for what they believed and that implies that the gospels were something greater than a myth.
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XJW4EVR
XJW,
As far as the rest of your post I don't see any mention of conservative scholars. ; ;Why is that?
LOL, I haven't mentioned liberal or critical scholars either.it only appears that you have found a way to affirm your presupposition, and you obviously think there is no need to challenge it. ; This is intellectual laziness.
Maybe. Or, at some point I felt I had already spent too much time debating with apologists and felt like moving on. Mind you, there is much more to the Bible texts than "whether it happened or not". You can spend your whole ;life trying to prove either side of the issue. If it takes intellectual laziness to step out of this nonsense, thanks intellectual laziness.If you have "moved on" as you you claim then why the need to continue to debate?
I am not the one trying to prove anything, but you seem to have spent quite a bit of time attempting to disprove what someone else, whose line of thinking doesn't quite live up to yours. If you have "moved on" why do you do this?
The answer that you are trying to save others will not fly with me, because if you have "moved on" then what other people believe should not bother you.
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Narkissos
XJW,
Am I not fascinating?
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gumby
The remarkable thing is that many early Christians who were inspired by the gospels were willing to face death and torture for what they believed and that implies that the gospels were something greater than a myth.
Greendawn,
That's like saying since thousands of jehovah's Witnesses have faced death, their must be some truth to what they believe in. Jim Jones followers thought they had the truth too and died for it.
People die all the time for a cause they thought was just only to never find out it wasn't.
Gumby
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XJW4EVR
Fascinating? No, I would call you boring. Edited to add: Not that you are boring, but your arguements are. They are the same tired arguements that get rehashed and then refuted time and time again. -
kid-A
So you have simply exchanged your WT theology for the brainwashing of the post-modern secular humanism?
Well actually XJW (and current fundamentalist) since you have no idea what my present belief system is I guess your point is moot. Nonetheless, I was impressed by your mathematical skills,
did they teach you that at the "Oral Roberts University" ? LOL.......enjoy wallowing in your fundamentalist turd bath, and keep on polishing those turds with uncle rex! We love it!!