Council of Nicaea / Arius / Constantine and the Bible

MissBehave

I've been reading up on the Constantine's involvement in the compilation of the bible at the Council of Nicaea. As well as the ousting of Arius because of his "controversial" beliefs. It's been many years since I've read any Watchtower literature...anyone know what the JW's believe / teach / preach regarding this subject.

If today's bible (any version) is a result of 66 books being voted into effect by a council of men in the 4th century under the direction of the first Christian Roman Emperor, that makes me have doubts that I never had before.

Especially the whole deal with Arius....he had views that differed from the mainstream...such as that the trinity was bogus. So he was deemed a heretic and his works were destroyed. And nothing was included in the "bible" that supported his version. And what about all the other books that were voted out that didn't make the final cut. What did those say?

I'm starting to think the bible is just literature.

merfi

This is exactly what I've also been pondering and researching lately. I've somewhat come to the conclusion that the Bible's canonicity is up for question, and if the canonicity is, maybe the 'inspired-ness' of it all is... So sitting back and waiting for the experts to start writing in under here.

~merfi

XJW4EVR

What has led you to forming this view?

Death to the Pixies

I would advise reading Metzger first.......................... then Ehrman.

greendawn

The Nicaea council decided on the Trinity issue but I don't think they decided on what books to include in the Bible and what to exclude. As it is there are plenty of verses that contradict the Trinitarian concept.

If the New Testament is read naturally it will become obvious that the early Christians had a view on this issue and it was a Son subordinated to the Father. The trinitarian concept tells us that the Son is on an equal level with the Father. However the Trinitarians won and Arius was totally demonised as a vile heretic.

Justin

Arianism does not call into question the biblical canon. Arius used the same books as his opponents - that's why both modern Arians (JWs, etc.) and Trinitarians can find "proof-texts" in the canonical Bible to support their respective positions. The Council of Nicea dealt with the question of whether or not Jesus Christ is fully divine. Constantine supported the position that he is, and as a result Arius was banished and a creed was drawn up supporting what became the orthodox position. This resulted in the doctrine of the Trinity, but the Trinity as such was not the issue at the time.

The Old Testament canon was inherited from Judaism, but the Apocryphal books were also accepted as the Church used the Greek version which contained those books. Most of the New Testament books can be found in the second century Muratorian canon.

At Nicea, Arius' main opponent was Athanasius, who eventually came to be known as the champion of orthodoxy. Constantine, quite apart from the council, requested Athansius to provide copies of the Bible for use in the churches, and Athanasius had to decide whether to include certain NT books which had been disputed (I'm not sure, but perhaps such books as 2 Peter, Hebrews, or Revelation). He did include those books, and made up the first list which is identical to the canon we have today. When this list was finally ratified by another council, it was claimed that the Church was merely identifying the books that were already canonical. It certainly wasn't a matter of laying out a bunch of books on a table and voting on them.

Another set of books was written by the gnostics, and these books were rejected by the emerging Catholic Church from the beginning. Arianism and orthodoxy are like cousins compared to gnosticism. Constantine's role amounted to using his political power to enforce the ban on the gnostic books.

Justitia Themis

In addition to your other research, you may want to read the book, "When Jesus Became God." I will include the Amazon link at the bottom. The writer ( a jewish man) was given amazing access to the Vatican's library...which is very guarded. The fight regarding the divinity of Jesus between the eastern and western portions of Christianity is what almost detroyed it. That is why the Catholic church so guards these documents...it could possibly happen again.

Regardless, I think you would enjoy this book.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0156013150/sr=1-1/qid=1144180488/ref=sr_1_1/103-8692026-2532620?%5Fencoding=UTF8&s=books

XJW4EVR

This thread began with the poster questioning the canon of the Bible. Let's get back on topic, please.

The poster erroneously claims that this was decided at the Council of Nicea. This indicates to me that the poster is reading and taking literally the fiction found in The DaVinci Code. If I am incorrect I apologize, however, this has been the case when I hear this from people I speak with.

MissBehave

I've never read the Da Vinci code.

Justitia Themis

Especially the whole deal with Arius....he had views that differed from the mainstream...such as that the trinity was bogus. So he was deemed a heretic and his works were destroyed. And nothing was included in the "bible" that supported his version. And what about all the other books that were voted out that didn't make the final cut. What did those say?

As I posted, you may enjoy the book I referenced.

Council of Nicaea / Arius / Constantine and the Bible

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