by MissBehave 40 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
With regard to the books that were rejected, we have more of them available today than at any time during the intervening centuries. Anyone who is discontented with the current Bible can read some of the other books and see if they would like to have them in the Bible.
Here are some websites:
In reading the posts on this thread, it hit me that this discussion would take a different tone if one thing were different. Most of us were raised in a Christian nation, and therefore were taught from infancy that there is a god, and his word is in the bible. Take that prejudice away and look again.Imagine this group having a discussion centered about the Hindu Vedas.
The day you begin to look at the bible as a piece of literature instead of the word of god, things look so different.
I'm so glad you brought this up. It's true, if I lived in another country or was raised in another religion it would just be a different book...the Quran, the Torah, the Book of Mormon etc etc. And this has been another thing on my mind. If it's become to me just a book I have to rethink what part in my life it played. I can't say the history or prophecy or symbolism were very important to me. I think I looked at it more as just a guide to living a good life and trying to be a good person. But that being said, it forced me to ask myself the question, do I really need a book to tell me how to live my life, or how to tell right from wrong? No, I don't.
Which led me to wonder what about before there were books.....hasn't every ancient civilization from throughout the various ages in history had a set of golden rules, codes of honor, commandments etc that they lived by? And they did so without the need of a bible (okay maybe they wrote it on a cave somewhere). Then that made me think further about all the cultures that were far from the geographic area where most bible history occured.....the Incas, the Mayans, the Aborgines, the early Native Americans.....they developed a similar set of values as outlined in the bible....so it has to be inherent, basic, common sense.
So I guess I've just come to the conclusion that I don't need a piece of literature to know this.
Justin, great links!!! Thanks. Very interesting. I personally think the book of Susanna should have made the final cut
When Jesus Became God." I second that - a great book
Hi MissBehave
...they say the men that wrote the bible were inspired by god if I remember correctly....so do they also think that the dudes who pulled it together into one tidy little book inspired too?
Here's what they think:
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sg study 3 p. 17 par. 10 The Bible—Our Principal Textbook ***10 The real test of canonicity is not how many times or by what nonapostolic writer a certain book has been quoted. The contents of the book itself must give evidence that it is a product of holy spirit. Consequently, it cannot encourage superstition, demonism or creature worship. It must be in total harmony with the rest of the Bible. Each book must conform to the divine "pattern of healthful words," and be in harmony with the teachings of Jesus. (2 Tim. 1:13) The apostles clearly spoke with divine authority. By holy spirit they had "discernment of inspired utterances" as to whether such were of God or not. (1 Cor. 12:4, 10) With the death of John, the last apostle, this reliable chain of divinely inspired men came to an end. And so with the Revelation, John’s Gospel and his letters, the Bible canon closed. The sixty-six books of our Bible, by their harmony, testify to the oneness of the Bible, and recommend it to us as indeed Jehovah’s word of inspired truth.
As for the OT stuff:
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sg study 3 p. 16 par. 8 The Bible—Our Principal Textbook ***8 Just as Jehovah inspired men to write, it logically follows that he would direct the collecting of these inspired writings. According to Jewish tradition, Ezra had a hand in this work after the exiled Jews were resettled in Judah. He was well qualified for the work, being one of the inspired Bible writers, a priest, and also "a skilled copyist in the law of Moses." (Ezra 7:1-11) The canon of the Hebrew Scriptures was well fixed by the end of the fifth century B.C.E. It contained the same writings that we have today and which are now divided into thirty-nine books. No council of men made them canonical; from their beginning they had divine approval. The most conclusive testimony on the canonicity of the Hebrew Scriptures is the unimpeachable word of Jesus Christ and the writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures. Though they used the inspired Hebrew Scriptures freely, never did they quote from the apocryphal books.—Luke 24:44, 45.
This has always been a weakness in WT theology - it begins with a Bible (which is shown by certain "proofs" to be inspired) with little concern as to how we got the Bible.
Imo this equally applies to Protestant theology as a whole (cf. sola scriptura).
Please read this debunking of the various unhistorical legends about the Council of Nicaea:
http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html
Some of the claims have been quite outrageous, especially the thoroughgoing fictions advanced by Tony Bushby.
The most conclusive testimony on the canonicity of the Hebrew Scriptures is the unimpeachable word of Jesus Christ and the writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures. Though they used the inspired Hebrew Scriptures freely, never did they quote from the apocryphal books.
In addition to your other research, you may want to read the book, "When Jesus Became God." I will include the Amazon link at the bottom. The writer ( a jewish man) was given amazing access to the Vatican's library...which is very guarded. The fight regarding the divinity of Jesus between the eastern and western portions of Christianity is what almost detroyed it. That is why the Catholic church so guards these documents...it could possibly happen again.
Regardless, I think you would enjoy this book.
I would like to second that recommendation. Dr. Rubenstein is not only a Jew, but also a Sociologist who teaches conflict resolution and public affairs. His specialty is religious conflict, so he doesn't have a dog in the trinitarian fight itself. That gives his writing an objectivity that is hard to find in other writings on the Arian/Nicene conflict. Basically, Rubenstein calls a spade a spade, and doesn't gloss over the failings of one side or another. It makes for fascinating reading.
Forscher
Jesus - Leolaia - that is a huge amount of work and research you have done
