JC ON TAPE (page 4)

a Christian

Dan,

Listening to your recordings brought back memories. I too was disfellowshipped for apostasy. For questioning similar matters.

That the date 607 is most likely wrong and 587 is most likely right, making 1914 wrong. That God most likely used evolution as his means of creation and the wording of Genesis allowing that possibility. That the flood of Noah's day was most likely a large but non-global flood and the wording of Genesis allowing that possibility.

I actually got the elders to admit that all of those things were possible and that the Society might change their teachings on all of them in years to come. So they said questioning our present understanding of them is not wrong, so long as I did not "run ahead of the 'Faithful Slave' on such matters" and did not spread doubts about the "Faithful Slave" in the congregation.

What finally sealed my fate was when they asked me if I believe God is using the Watchtower Society as his "Faithful and Discreet Slave" and as his "sole channel of communication and Bible truth on the earth." After a brief pause, though I did not want to be disfellowshipped, I knew I had to answer honestly. As soon as I answered that question with the word "No" I knew I was gone. It was a question I hoped they would not ask. If they had asked you that same question early on I think that "brother" could have got home to his "sick wife" a lot sooner.

Listening to you speak during your hearing it was hard to tell how you really now feel about various matters. I hope you have only lost your faith in men and not Christ. Feel free to e mail me if you want to talk to someone who has "been there done that."

Mike - [email protected]

parlay

Here's what they said you wouldn't find in the societies literature about doubts.

***

w01 7/1 p. 18 Do Not Let Doubts Destroy Your Faith ***

Of course, not all doubt is bad. At times, you need to suspend acceptance of something till you are sure of the facts. Religious exhortations to the effect that you should just believe and should doubt nothing are dangerous and deceptive. True, the Bible says that love "believes all things." (1 Corinthians 13:7) A loving Christian is certainly ready to believe those who have proved trustworthy in the past. But God’s Word also warns against ‘putting faith in every word.’ (Proverbs 14:15) Sometimes a person’s past record gives legitimate reason for doubt. "Although [the deceptive talker] makes his voice gracious," the Bible warns, "do not believe in him."—Proverbs 26:24, 25.

Also of course the societies information doesn't apply to the society. How are you guilty of apostasy when you were following what they quoted in the Bible, "But God’s Word also warns against ‘putting faith in every word."? I guess the societies double standard precludes their "past record" of false prophecies and other erroneous teachings from providing a "legitimate reason for doubt" ? The guys you met with were just mirrors of the society. When they can't answer your questions, they resort to discrediting and trying to silence you.

My past experience convinced me to always have a tape recorder when meeting with them. Everyone having a meeting should tape it and post it. Proof of the ignorance and one-sided injustice of the Judicial commitee set up. Catching the societies frontmen on tape getting irate and spewing stupidity is priceless.

Lady Liberty

Here's what they said you wouldn't find in the societies literature about doubts.

*** w01 7/1 p. 18 Do Not Let Doubts Destroy Your Faith ***

Of course, not all doubt is bad. At times, you need to suspend acceptance of something till you are sure of the facts. Religious exhortations to the effect that you should just believe and should doubt nothing are dangerous and deceptive. True, the Bible says that love "believes all things." (1 Corinthians 13:7) A loving Christian is certainly ready to believe those who have proved trustworthy in the past. But God’s Word also warns against ‘putting faith in every word.’ (Proverbs 14:15) Sometimes a person’s past record gives legitimate reason for doubt. "Although [the deceptive talker] makes his voice gracious," the Bible warns, "do not believe in him."—Proverbs 26:24, 25.

If only you could have read this to them!!! Maybe in your appeal you can!! I would love to hear them reply to this!

L.L.

unclebruce

Listening to the tape right now -

Witness Larry Dumbfuk is trying to bolster his own position with the Elders by saying that he defended the Society's 1914 date.

"He turned from a person asking a question to someone advocating a faith other than something I believe."

Transcript:

...

Elder: We have two witnesses Dan: No you don't have two witnesses to each incident. Elders: But there is a pattern Dan: What am I being charged with? Elder: There is a pattern. Elder: The charge is a bad attitude .. speaking out, you may put it in a question form but you are using your Education to question the truth. Higher Education destroys spiritual minds and that's whats happened to you. Dan you're being led astray by these minds ... ~end of recording~

Wasanelder Once

Dan,

If you edited this tape to make these men look like the morons they sound to be, I applaud your ability to play with tape recordings. You are amazing.

Damned intellect, gets in the way everytime.

What a ship of fools.

W.Once

BlackPearl

Dan, maybe you'll need this!

Odrade

jebus, I'm about 1/3 of the way through and it sounds like they are beating you up. LOL! The static! Seriously though, this is unbelievable.

ackack

I think it would be great if we could have a transcript of this. Any brave souls willing to attempt this?

ackack

Odrade

Oh, now they're pulling out the "you think you're so smart" card. Jackasses. You know they're back to wall when they start saying "we're not going to answer because you think you're so smart." gawd this makes me PISSED.

Lady Liberty

After hearing the JC meeting tape, and listening to one of the so called witnesses give the statement that Dan called and said, "There were many things that the JWs are wrong about, ALOT of other things", I relistened to that original conversation. He at NO time on either call said anything like that! A transcript would be AWESOME Dan!! Your probably the only one who can hear it clear enough to do it. Besides, a transcript would be great to hand to your appeal commitee, now that you told them you made tape recordings of the conversations.

Sincerely

Lady Liberty

JC ON TAPE

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